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At long last, it's an all-Elizabeth-and-Jessica book! No school (almost)! No friends (almost)! No teachers! Just our twins and the most ridiculous dinner date disguise debacle since Mrs. Doubtfire. Julia Kenney Smith joins Marissa in the (actual) studio!
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Patty Gilbert is having a scheduling nightmare! Her boyfriend is home from college for the first time in a month...and her sister is home from NorCal for the first time in 6 months! This is a bigger crisis than it sounds like. Also, there are handpainted t-shirts in this one.
Marissa Wasseluk returns to mark this auspicious Season 7 premiere!
Posted at 08:58 AM in Minor Characters In the Spotlight, Podcast, Romances | Permalink | Comments (0)
“It’s 3D, but not the D’s you’re expecting”
In which two professional filmmakers/screenwriting professors attempt to break story on a film adaptation of Sweet Valley High Book 60: THAT FATAL NIGHT.
A NOT-TOO-TERRIBLE TRANSCRIPT FOR THIS EPISODE FOLLOWS
Extra Drama #60: The Ken Matthews Story
[00:00:00] Marissa: It's extra drama for book number 60 that fatal night. Hey everybody. It's me. Your host, Marissa Flaxbart. And I'm joined again by William J Stribling. Hi, I call you will though. That's fine. Although sometimes I call you Joe, but I always feel a little bit like, I'm kidding when I call you Joe. Cause that's like not how I do natural.
No, but people call you Joe. Sometimes some people, some people. How do you feel about it?
[00:00:41] Will: Uh, I like my first name.
[00:00:43] Marissa: Yeah, I like it too. Okay, well, that's good to know. I'll keep calling you Will then. Will and I are together in person, which is why this episode probably sounds a little bit different than some of them have lately.
We have been in person more lately than I have been in person with most people
[00:01:00] Will: This year in general.
this year.
[00:01:02] Marissa: Yeah, not lately so much as this year because we made a movie together, made a movie, and that was exciting and continues to be exciting because now is the part where maybe people will get to see it, presumably, uh,
[00:01:15] Will: whether they like it or not.
They'll see it,
[00:01:17] Marissa: uh, you know, it won't be for everybody, but know what movie is it? Did they, but I bet not. Well, how do you think the world at large would feel about the movie? of Ken Matthews' story.
[00:01:32] Will: I think it's too much in today's climate. I feel like that, uh, it would be asking a lot of an audience to get behind this premise of this boy.
There's ways we can amend the story and make it appropriate for today's audiences. But as I mentioned in the episode, I feel like he both Ken, he is unfairly punished with the car accident and the blindness, both of which are kind of writing. You know, like they're, they're very random. He's not in any control of his, his fate.
He wasn't doing something he shouldn't have been doing, and this is the cautionary tale, but when he gets his sight back at the end, he also doesn't deserve that. It's just as random and, and undeserved. Um, so that's where I sit with with the story. I feel like people would, would roll their eyes and groan.
Obviously we can, we could go hard into the like satirical angle and, and, and play it for comedy or play it straight. And in playing it straight, it is funny.
[00:02:30] Marissa: I have always thought that would be a really funny way to do a Sweet Valley High, like TV show, would be to make it like intensely earnest and like over the top.
And then it would be really funny because it would sort of be like a self-parody almost. Yeah, like the moment at the end of the movie or episode or whatever, where he sort of sees the light from the sunset. It's like reading. You know, it's like touching in its way, but I think it's easy to picture it.
Like you said, in the main episode that you could hear the music, swelling and everything, when they reunite
[00:03:05] Will: She runs into his arms and then they kiss and then it's, you know, there's a sunset happening. It's very cinematic what's going on here.
[00:03:12] Marissa: It is. And you know, what else is in...? Yeah, sorry. I was having two thoughts at once and one of the thoughts was like, it would be really easy to make it so over the top that it's ridiculous.
And then it wouldn't be that much harder to push on that to make it ridiculous on purpose in a way that's funny,
[00:03:30] Will: just the premise that this guy's life is totally ruined because he's blind now? It's, it's a little dicey. It's like, being blind is not a death sentence. And he would, what do you need to see for he wasn't reading. This kid
wasn't reading. I feel like that there's a pitch of this film where he comes to terms with his blindness and becomes the world's first blind quarterback.
[00:03:56] Marissa: But that's actually what I thought you were going to say. And then I thought, oh, you weren't going to say it. And I'm going to tell you what I thought you were going to say, it's going to be so funny.
But then you said, when I thought you were originally going to say, yes, that's the way this movie should go. So the sunset thing doesn't happen. We cut the sunset moment.
[00:04:11] Will: Right. Or put it later. It happens later.
[00:04:13] Marissa: It happens later after he. Like, or with Terry's help. Oh, because Terry is so good at football, she knows all about football, not just stats, but like what they mean and what the players do.
So they're doing all this running on the beach. So they start kind of come up with a system for how she can like throw the ball and,
[00:04:30] Will: and they're inspired by a dolphin that they see in the water and they train him with echolocation.
Yeah. You
[00:04:35] Marissa: can see dolphins at the Pacific ocean sometimes.
[00:04:38] Will: And he learns to harness echolocation to play football and.
And then his teammates all have to wear metal plates underneath their uniforms, so he can tell who's on his team and who's not on his team so he can throw the ball at...at those...
[00:04:54] Marissa: The metal plates make a sound?
[00:04:56] Will: Well,
they will kick back a reverberation that sounds different than the other team, which are not wearing the metal.
[00:05:03] Marissa: His ears are just really finely tuned at this point.
[00:05:05] Will: He's gone full dolphin.
[00:05:07] Marissa: Okay. So he, you know, on a football team, you know, before they do the pass, the quarterback has this thing where he's like,
[00:05:17] Will: Hut, hut...
[00:05:19] Marissa: Yeah, so can, can remain the quarterback, but he just says, he's just calling out "hut hut" all the time. Yeah.
And that was how he can hear the difference in the reverberations and throw these like beautiful passes. And I mean, like he knows how to throw a pass.
[00:05:34] Will: Right.
[00:05:34] Marissa: So as long as he knows the general direction of the throwing pass, then it's on the other teammates, right.
[00:05:39] Will: To like pick up the slack. Yeah.
[00:05:42] Marissa: Okay, this is good. This is good. So another cinematic scene is the Terry discovering what it's like to blind.
[00:05:52] Will: We could expand that. And I think right now it's a little underwritten. It's just her and her room with a scarf around her head. And then she goes into the kitchen and spills some juice. I think the book is short enough that if this were a movie that would need to be a full sequence where Terry goes to school and pretends to be blind and offends everybody.
[00:06:11] Marissa: Right. Including Ken, right? Cause Ken can be like, what do you think? You know, you're making fun of me.
[00:06:16] Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely.
[00:06:18] Marissa: Are the Wakefields in the movie?
[00:06:20] Will: They have to be a bit, I feel like Elizabeth creates so much of the plot just in her phone calls. The things she accomplishes to push the story forward.
She's gotta be there.
[00:06:31] Marissa: she's like a mover and a shaker, right? She's connecting people, connecting situations.
[00:06:36] Will: Jessica is a superfluous character in this one. She's off in the background doing her own thing. Is she dating someone in this book?
[00:06:44] Marissa: No, cause she goes on that date with Skip Harmon, but maybe we can use Skip Harmon somehow because he's not really utilized in the book other than like, as an excuse as to why Jessica wants to leave
the party with Elizabeth and Todd, which therefore puts her in the right position to see the accident.
[00:07:03] Will: Well, I think that Skip Harmon gets cast in the school play, which is an original that the theater teacher is inspired to do based on the story of their blind quarterback and skip plays Ken in the.
[00:07:17] Marissa: Ooh.
[00:07:18] Will: Because he, I mean, he, he's not an actor, but he sees himself as a superstar.
So of course they tap into that level of...
[00:07:27] Marissa: The drama teacher, incidentally, Mr. Jaworsky. Pretty close to Jablonksi!
[00:07:34] Will: Hey Jablonski! It feels like something you would say,
[00:07:37] Marissa: Oh! I mean, Ron Ja-who would play Ron Jablonski?
[00:07:40] Will: We never know. We only ever hear him. Because when we're in the sequence of the film, that's at the, uh, the rehab facility is fully silent or sorry....
Black, I guess? So. Okay. Pictureless. Not silent. The
opposite of silent.
[00:07:56] Marissa: Over black, we hear the sounds of a facility
[00:08:00] Will: The inverse of The Sound of Metal, a fantastic film that's streaming on Amazon with Riz Ahmed
Have you seen it?
[00:08:06] Marissa: I actually haven't watched it yet, but I know that I should. It's just
the,
[00:08:10] Will: But he goes deaf and then he goes to, uh, uh, it's not a camp.
It's a, it's not really a school either. It's it's a place. Yeah, there are other deaf people that help him learn how to be deaf. But the main mentor figure is a deaf person in that film. And I feel like Ron Jablonski should probably also be a blind person,
[00:08:33] Marissa: Even though he is not in the book
[00:08:35] Will: In the book, they make it very clear that he is not blind.
And I think in the movie version that we're making Ron Jablonski should probably be blind as well.
[00:08:43] Marissa: Sure, I like that.
[00:08:44] Will: To set an example.
[00:08:45] Marissa: I do think that if we go too artsy with it, whuh it's a real choice that we're making, that might, uh, undercut the other direction of pushing it so far, that it's comedy.
[00:08:57] Will: We're going to counteract that with the 4d experience, because we want you to be able to have heightened senses in this sequence.
So we're going to bring in smells.
[00:09:07] Marissa: Okay. So...
[00:09:07] Will: to the theater.
[00:09:08] Marissa: ...that's the fourth D?
[00:09:09] Will: That's the fourth, is smell
[00:09:11] Marissa: I was going to say, cause sometimes isn't... 4D usually has like shaking seats?
[00:09:16] Will: It might still just be 3d. Cause we're taking one D away.
[00:09:20] Marissa: It's 3d, but it's not the D's you're expecting. Yeah, this is good.
This is good. It's. Yeah. Yeah, I, is there a 4D thing where like you can get water sprayed in your face?
[00:09:34] Will: Yeah. It's water sprayed in your face. It smells and like rumble seat.
[00:09:40] Marissa: There is, there are smells and 4D in. Normally I have you ever been on, um, Soarin', California Adventure?
[00:09:48] Will: Yeah, many times. Yeah.
[00:09:49] Marissa: I went on it for the first time, uh, earlier this year, uh, when Disneyland reopened. We went one day, like on a Wednesday, this is sort of like pre Delta. Yeah.
[00:10:01] Will: But there was a tiny window in there where. It's safe to go out and
[00:10:06] Marissa: in a place like that, I mean, everybody has to wear a mask and honestly, they were really strict, strict about it. They're one of the people in our party, like had her mask off while we were walking to like, take a drink of water.
And he was like, you can't do that. You have to let me not like you can't, you just have to go to a designated area to do. Um, even though it's all outside. But there are so many people around. And so they have to have strict rules, I guess, anyway, not to make this about Disneyland, but Soarin' has a really, I wasn't, I didn't know anything about it.
So I was excited to experience the smell dimension of it.
[00:10:38] Will: It's like orange Grove or something that you, right? Yeah.
[00:10:42] Marissa: There's like, I mean, there's some of it's pretty fakie, but there's a rose by the Taj Mahal. And there was a sort of like ocean smell, like, but it's like ocean cologne smell when you're by the ocean.
But a lot of it is, is very, it's still was cool. Cause I, yeah, I like smells. Good smells. Bad smells I don't like. I really don't like them. Well, I think this is a great idea, but could we have the seats lift up out of the air? Is there any reason for that?
[00:11:11] Will: Um, when, when Ken is being lifted on people's shoulders, when he wins the football match,
[00:11:18] Marissa: the first one or the one, the after he is the blind quarterback?
[00:11:22] Will: I think we slowly dial up the Ds in our 4d experience as the film goes on.
[00:11:28] Marissa: Well, there is a moment in the book when there's a question of, um, maybe if can, does well enough for the rest of the season- this is before the accident. Maybe he'll be able to beat the record. Just one kid's record of how many touchdowns in a season?
[00:11:46] Will: Completed passes? Runs? Foot...balls?
[00:11:49] Marissa: It was... the number was low, like nine.
So what could it have been? But whatever it was like, that doesn't matter. It, it sets up a certain kind of stakes, right? For Ken,
[00:11:58] Will: he's got a goal that he's trying to hit by the end of this season.
[00:12:01] Marissa: Right. And so we feel the loss for Ken when those stakes fall through, but it never gets brought up.
[00:12:08] Will: It certainly does not.
[00:12:09] Marissa: It's just like, "oh, I can't play anymore." Not, "I'm not going to hit that goal." And so the Gladiators aren't going to have an undefeated season maybe. And then. The game that he goes to with Terry's in the last second. Yeah. But he kind of realizes that he can handle it. Like football's not everything.
[00:12:25] Will: Yeah. Football's not everything. Is nice.
[00:12:27] Marissa: Football is NOT life
[00:12:28] Will: is not life. Is that a Friday night lights thing? Football.
[00:12:31] Marissa: Football is life is a Ted Lasso thing.
[00:12:34] Will: Different football though.
[00:12:35] Marissa: Yeah, that's right. Well, we did it. We did it. We'll get right to work on this. Our follow up project
[00:12:42] Will: Sold in the room, as they say.
[00:12:44] Marissa: To whom though?
Well, that's when you're an independent filmmaker, you don't have to sell anybody.
[00:12:49] Will: I'm sold.
[00:12:50] Marissa: Just do what you want and then ask people to give you money.
[00:12:53] Will: Um, speaking of giving us money, uh, you can Venmo us
[00:12:57] Marissa: Yeah we just set up a Komodo...
Sweet Valley Venmo?
Oh yeah. I was thinking for the, for the movie
[00:13:03] Will: I was to trying to make you some money.
[00:13:05] Marissa: Well, we'll, I'll have to look into that. It would be great if people could, could give me some money and maybe in the future, I will find a way for that to be,
[00:13:11] Will: This is the thing that I've seen lately driving around the streets of Los Angeles, graduations, bachelor parties, bachelorette parties, and the like.
The "just married" type cars you write in soap, kind of on the windshield. People are writing their Venmo handle. So the like strangers can, and passers by can send the money.
[00:13:34] Marissa: Wow. I don't know how to feel about that.
[00:13:36] Will: I don't either, but part of me wanting to pull out my phone while I was driving and just send like a dollar to this random person and say congrats,
[00:13:44] Marissa: but like, couldn't, you then get bombarded with a bunch of like requests for money that you have.
[00:13:50] Will: Maybe. Yeah, you're right.
[00:13:53] Marissa: I would be worried about like publicizing venmo, which, I mean, I've seen a lot of that lately
[00:13:57] Will: but I also just want to put mine on my car and see, there's no reason I'm not celebrating anything. I don't deserve this.
[00:14:06] Marissa: Come up with a way to trick the DMV and make it your license plate, VNMO...
[00:14:11] Will: WJS?
[00:14:12] Marissa: There's not enough room. I just put them on a bumper sticker. You can put it right next to your "love gladiators."
[00:14:18] Will: "Honk if you love to read cake."
[00:14:23] Marissa: Yeah. Well, Will, thank you so much for this wonderful brainstorm session and for being, you know, such a powerful creative mind,
[00:14:29] Will: anytime, see...
[00:14:30] Marissa: And for doing the podcast
[00:14:31] Will: See y'all again in four years.
[00:14:33] Marissa: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Gladiators. We will not be gone for long here on Sweet Valley Diaries because there's some business to attend to in the near future.
Some things I want to talk about and that I'm gonna, you know, have some more bonus episodes about, and you know, a little book called Lila's Story, maybe some other kind of odds and ends that we need to take care of. So I won't be gone for long and I will also still be around at sweet valley diaries on Instagram at sweet valley on Twitter. And you can email me sweet valley [email protected]. Bye!
Posted at 08:16 AM in Danger, Film, Ken Matthews, Podcast, Romances, Sports, Terrible Accidents | Permalink | Comments (0)
Honk if you love the Gladiators
It's the (main episode) Season 6 finale and all the stars are out: Terry Adams! Zack Johnson! Skip Harmon! You know, all your favorites. Oh, and the Wakefields and such are there too. But let's quit beating around the bush: this is the book where Ken Matthews becomes (temporarily???) blind in a car accident. Director (and former guest reader!) William J. Stribling is along for the ride...but, you know, figuratively. Safer that way.
Blind on the Move: Do Blind People Count Their Steps?
Episode Transcript (Auto-generated and shoddily edited; apologies for the many errors)
Book #60: THAT FATAL NIGHT
[00:00:00] Marissa: Welcome to sweet valley diaries. It's just like Friday night lights except ridiculous book number 60 that fatal night.
[00:00:17] Will: will Ken's life be ruined in one tragic moment. Was that good?
That was great.
[00:00:23] Marissa: Well, hello, Gladiators. And welcome to this, the full episode season finale of season six. I didn't realize this was a season finale. Yeah, well, surprise, surprise. Well, do you recognize that voice, Gladiators? Probably not, but there's always a chance. I'm Marissa Flaxbart . Did I say that?
Well, I'm the host of the show. My name is Marissa Flaxbart. You should get that down. Cause I'm going to be here every time. I am joined by William Joseph Stribling. Will you were on the show once before. Do you have any recollection of that, of
[00:01:00] Will: that happening? Because it was me and Sinead Persaud together.
It was years ago.
[00:01:08] Marissa: Yeah. Well, now we're getting close. Like this December will be four years that we've been doing so it was an
[00:01:13] Will: early one. I think it was.
[00:01:17] Marissa: Oh, yeah, it was book 11. It was called "Too Good to Be True." And Too Good to Be True is the story of a visitor to Sweet Valley named Suzanne Devlin. Does that ring any bells?
[00:01:27] Will: Mean, yeah, the name Devlin definitely ring some bells.
And was there something with her flirting with a teacher?
[00:01:35] Marissa: Yeah, there, there was something with that and she tried to ruin his career by making up a story. It was a very problematic book,
[00:01:44] Will: This one is also a little problematic and it makes me wonder, are they all like this? Or am I just lucky? Because,
[00:01:52] Marissa: uh, I think it's a little bit of both, a little bit of both.
The fact that every sweet valley high book is a little problematic is kind of like the thesis statement of the whole podcast. You know, why is it interesting? We're here to talk about That Fatal Night,
[00:02:07] Will: A bad title. Yeah. Why That Fateful night?
[00:02:12] Marissa: You know, when I put this in my calendar, it's like at the beginning of the season, I'll like structure out, this is where every episode will fall. If I start on this date, but I'm deciding when to start a season. And I noticed the other day that I had put "that fateful night" in the calendar because my brain was like correcting, couldn't possibly be "fatal!" And
no one died. So it's not a fatal night. Yes. No one dies.
Our guest in the last books episode, Libbie Hawker did to spoil that for everybody. So Gladiators, I didn't issue a spoiler alert because it was pre- spoiled. So,
[00:02:45] Will: does anyone ever die in these books? Oh, yes.
[00:02:49] Marissa: Right. Once I noticed that the book was called That Fatal Night, which honestly the whole fatal/ fateful thing was like a low level realization.
Like it was not rising to consciousness that I had been making that confusion, but I was like, oh no, who's going to die. But then you read the back of the book and it's like, it seems like some serious stuff is going to happen, but I don't know who might die. Um, well, I mean, we can talk about the cover of the book because...
[00:03:13] Will: The cover's so silly..
[00:03:15] Marissa: Okay. If you hadn't read the book and you haven't read the back of the book, what would you think is happening on the cover?
[00:03:22] Will: I would think that the blonde boy did something bad and he's looking off into the distance with guilt and his girlfriend, who is kind of like clawing at his clavicle, is concerned that she doesn't know the secret thing that he has done, that he is responsible for.
He also looks like. Like Brian Wilson from the early beach boys days.
[00:03:51] Marissa: I was trying to think of what he looked like
[00:03:53] Will: a little, like a, one of the Wilson brothers.
[00:03:55] Marissa: He has a lot of hair, but it's short, but it's just like a long, this, um, this fellow is such a hunk. Ken Matthews. He is.
Does he
exist before this book?
Ken Matthews, has been a favorite, like, background character of these books since the beginning, he hasn't gotten a book of his own for a really long time.
[00:04:19] Will: So this is a big deal for Ken.
[00:04:21] Marissa: He gets his own book? Yeah. It's a big deal.
[00:04:23] Will: That this all happens to him.
[00:04:24] Marissa: Oh yeah. I mean, basically Ken's short, like one- sentence biography it's included in this book.
It's he's the star of the football team. He's got those handsome. I think the phrase all American probably gets used because these books love that phrase. But, he's the football star. He's, well-liked, he's popular.
He's not all that bright, but you know, he can hold a conversation and, uh, he's mostly famous for being the captain of the football team, the quarterback.
Now, would you consider this book like a side plot or it doesn't really focus on the twins. And I know they're the stars of the show, basically.
So this is one of these books of which the kind of like parade of randos is what we call it here on sweet valley diaries.
Ken, Ken Matthews is not a rando, but The, a Woman on the cover is turning Ms. Terry, Terry Adams, Terry...Polo? Not Teri Polo..
[00:05:24] Will: Oh man, I'm going to find that it is, I mean, she doesn't even show up right away. Come on, Terry.
Just
[00:05:33] Marissa: Terry.. Sorry. I can't remember what her last name is. The book doesn't care. And Terry. like Kind of appeared at the end of the previous book, but she's new. She's the rando. She is one of many randos that this book brings
[00:05:45] Will: She so random that she's not even the main statistician for the football team.
She's the assistant, that's
[00:05:51] Marissa: her job. She's a junior. She is a junior
[00:05:53] Will: Terry Adams by the way.
[00:05:55] Marissa: Got it. Okay. So yes, she is the statistician. She's a junior and I at the high school, which most of the characters in these books are, but we've never heard of her.
[00:06:04] Will: They're all perpetually juniors? Do you see people graduate?
[00:06:08] Marissa: Not in sweet valley high. There are other series sweet valley senior year. Got it. Sweet valley university. But even those, it was like, they were written in different eras, so it's sort of confusing.
[00:06:20] Will: When was this book
written?
[00:06:21] Marissa: This, oh, that's actually an important question because, um, this book was published in November of 1989, which is pretty momentous because that means
[00:06:32] Will: I wasn't born yet.
[00:06:34] Marissa: That's right now what I was going to say, but thanks for reminding me of that. I'm sure me and all the listeners that are older than me, it will be thrilled to hear that. Um, no, the reason is that it's about to be the nineties. Like when we return for season seven of Sweet Valley Diaries. It's going to be the nineties.
[00:06:53] Will: And does that get reflected in the books that follow this one?
[00:06:57] Marissa: I don't know.
[00:06:59] Will: You've never read them.
[00:07:00] Marissa: I've never read them.
[00:07:01] Will: Oh, I thought that you read all of these as a year. So many of them yeah, 180 Wikipedia says. Yeah.
[00:07:09] Marissa: So I read 50 of them before I started the podcast. So a lot of books, I thought it was a lot.
Yeah. But, uh, and I read the Sweet Valley Twins books, which are like younger. Um, but yeah, so it's November, 1989 and there is actually something in the back of the hard copy of the book that I thought was so precious, it says
Marker
[00:07:28] Marissa: Sweet Valley wants to know what's your new year's resolution? Announcing the Sweet Valley, New Year's Resolution Contest.
How are you planning to start? The 1990s? Sweet Valley wants to know and entering our contest is so easy. Just send us a short description of your new year's resolution. 50 words or less.
[00:07:48] Will: It does not take 50 words to say that you just want to kiss a boy at midnight.
[00:07:53] Marissa: My new year's resolution. Yeah. So it's like a nineties resolution too, um, so anyway, this is, isn't that cute?
[00:07:59] Will: That is extremely cute.
[00:08:00] Marissa: You were asking me about the. The structure of the books. This is one of those, it's kind of like the structure of what, of these parade of randos books that are not about the twins in any real way, in that it starts reminding the reader.
These books are mostly about the Wakefield twins, because the very first thing that happens is that we have, you know, Elizabeth and Todd doing their thing and Jessica and her perspective on things before we get into the fact that. The book is going to be about Ken Matthews. And they're at a football game.
Cause the Gladiators,
[00:08:34] Will: That was my high school mascot as well. I did not, not go to any football games, but I knew that we were the Gladiators,
[00:08:40] Marissa: Did you guys have football? 'Cause you went to like an art school.
[00:08:43] Will: Yeah. But it was an arts magnet within a big public school. The public school, big football school. Gibbs High School, the Gibbs Gladiators.
[00:08:51] Marissa: Oh, well that makes a lot more sense than the Sweet Valley High Gladiators.
[00:08:54] Will: What makes the valley sweet is what I want to know. Oh, I understand what makes a valley hidden, but not what makes a valley sweet.
[00:09:01] Marissa: We actually recently had a sort of conspiracy theory that maybe a Sweet Valley had once been Hidden Valley, but like some terrible curse had struck it and it had become
sweet,
[00:09:12] Will: Like an overgrowth of strawberry plants? And now it's a sweet valley?
[00:09:17] Marissa: Ugh, yuck. Sorry, I was thinking about the ranch dressing and the strawberries. And it's ugly
[00:09:21] Will: You don't dip your strawberries in ranch?
[00:09:22] Marissa: I haven't tried it yet, so maybe I shouldn't knock it.
[00:09:24] Will: You're missing out. It's savory and sweet. It's I don't even know what ranch flavor is.
[00:09:30] Marissa: It's like buttermilk and pepper. Hmm.
[00:09:32] Will: Okay. Right. That's a lot simpler than I would've thought.
[00:09:35] Marissa: Well, I don't know. I'm just spitballing. Um, so the first chapter of this book. My head was spinning because it reads like a yearbook, like whoever was the ghost writer for this book was like, we got to get as many teen full names as we possibly can. We've got a who's who of sweet valley sports I wrote in my,
[00:09:57] Will: and then there's a party that immediately follows.
So there's two big opportunities to meet way too many characters for me to understand what the hell is going on at any point. Like where, where is this going? Whose story is this? The point of view is constantly shifting. There's so many people with so much skin
in this game.
[00:10:16] Marissa: Right? Right. Well, and there's an, well, the point of view shift is wielded creatively in this book and a few points, but I will get there. Um, so I'm going to read this. Uh, this is my thing that I noted as who's who of sweet valley sports.
sports
[00:10:31] Marissa: Down in the first row of bleachers, Sweet Valley High as basketball star, Shelley Novak exchanged high fives with her friend, Kristen Thompson, who was well on her way to a professional tennis career.
John Pfeifer, the sports photographer for the Oracle was standing on his seat, snapping pictures of the celebration. His girlfriend, Jennifer Mitchell, was standing beside him sitting quietly in the middle of all the commotion, next to Shelly, was Terry Adams, a petite pretty junior, who was the gladiators assistant statistician.
Her eyes closed, she hugged her clipboard tightly, a dreamy smile on her lips. That last run of Ken's was his 57th of the season.
This book holds up the 57th run as if it's like a special number.
Yeah.
[00:11:12] Will: I don't know nearly enough about football to know if that is an impressive thing.
High school, college professional.
[00:11:19] Marissa: We don't know how long their season cause you know,
Terry always had all the facts right at hand, especially when they concerned Ken Matthews.
So Terry Adams has a big crush on Ken Matthews. Terry. Yeah. Knows everything about the Gladiators football stats that, and she's like interested like it... it's not just that she loves Ken. And so she loves football because she loves Ken much of the books credit. She doesn't don't you think she's genuinely into, right? Well, her job.
[00:11:49] Will: As, as the assistant statistician at the school.
[00:11:53] Marissa: So it's like, I'm sure she has like a volunteer thing. It's like being a water
[00:11:56] Will: or like writing for the school paper or the other kid.
John Pfeiffer. Who's a photographer who somehow standing on his seat. Why wasn't he down on the sidelines? Why did he have to sit in a seat?
[00:12:06] Marissa: That's a really good point. I mean, this whole book. The way that football is described in this chapter also struck me as both confusing and vague. And I was thinking about the fact that these books were published, like all across the world, but especially in the English speaking world.
And there's not, I mean, there are other countries that have football, like American football I know there were a lot of Canadian readers, but like, I don't know what is Australian football
[00:12:31] Will: No they're more into
rugby, right?
[00:12:33] Marissa: Yeah But there is something called Australian football
[00:12:35] Will: It's probably soccer
[00:12:37] Marissa: Well, then there's soccer, which of course the British call football.
[00:12:40] Will: Which most of the rest of the world calls.
football
[00:12:42] Marissa: Yeah.
In...yeah
[00:12:44] Will: Yeah.
I mean, it was definitely dumbed down enough that I understood it as someone who doesn't really get football.
[00:12:50] Marissa: It's a complicated sport.
[00:12:51] Will: Yeah.
[00:12:51] Marissa: I mean, for a sport, that's just like "run it down from one end to the other,"
[00:12:55] Will: There's a lot of chaos.
[00:12:56] Marissa: The little bits and bobs.
[00:12:57] Will: And the nuances of the chaos
[00:12:58] Marissa: How, how many chances do you have to go how far? If you get that far, then you get to go a little further and then you can score seven points or you can score two points or you can score one point.
[00:13:10] Will: Well you score six. And then...
[00:13:12] Marissa: OH, six plus one
[00:13:13] Will: plus one, or plus two,
[00:13:15] Marissa: we should have a football podcast. We explain how football works to the world.
Like this is the level of understanding that, um, the book conveys as well. For sure. So another, character that gets mentioned early on, is a fellow named Scott Trost.
So as long as we're talking about characters in the world of sweet valley, let's just real quick. Do a little bit of talking about boys.
Okay. So Scott Trost, I kind of think he's come up in the book before, but I'm not totally sure. How did he
come up in this one? I don't remember him.
First of all, he's on the football team.
Okay. Oh, is he the one that replaces Ken, the quarterback. He's going to
replace Ken as the quarterback, once events of this book unfold.
[00:14:06] Will: I'm bad with names.
[00:14:07] Marissa: Well, that's a problem in a book like this, cause there's about a thousand characters.
[00:14:12] Will: Yeah, but they also just constantly call each other by their full name, by their full name, last name.
So
[00:14:18] Marissa: later on in the book, they're like, "Ken, it's me, Aaron Dallas." " I'm here. Lila Fowler." She doesn't say that, but yeah. Um, it Gladiators, if you don't know what this book is about, it'll all become clear when we get there, but, uh, start imagining what you, why you think people might be introducing themselves to Ken by their first and last name.
You were saying like, you're not good with names. And I was noticing how many names were being introduced. I was just thinking about how many characters already exist in Sweet Valley and how ridiculous it is that like still more characters are being introduced. Like this book almost feels like a big push into like a new era of Sweet Valley where they're going to be more characters to have stories, but like, there are plenty of characters have stories about all right.
[00:15:00] Will: Did Egbert exist already? Okay. Because when he casually calls this guy Egbert in his car, it seemed like a quip like an insult. Yeah. Is that like a weird insult from the eighties I'm not aware of? Literally. And then they came up later. Oh, okay. His name is, is Egbert. And that made me sad for him.
[00:15:21] Marissa: So here's an intro to Scott Trost.
[00:15:23] Will: Seems all right. I feel like he gets painted as a villain later. He is the replacement of Ken, , we're definitely supposed to be team Ken, not team Scott. We're supposed to get right? Like empathize? So I feel bad for
Scott.
[00:15:41] Marissa: The Wayfield twins feel bad for Scott too, in a funny scene. Um, but we're getting ahead of ourselves. Just a quick intro of Scott Trost?
st
Elizabeth clutch Todd's hand is Ken dropped back to pass. "Complete!" She cried happily as Scott Trost caught the ball and scooted out of bounds, stopping the clock with 40 seconds left.
So Scott's a good football guy. Elizabeth and Todd are having a great time at the game. That was a little taste of the football , in this book. there's another boy who gets introduced his name is. Johnson. I wrote in my notes for the question mark,
zj
" Terry!" She turned and saw Zach Johnson trotting over to her.
I got trust and trot. Was there similar words? Is that, is that something, is that something? I dunno. Okay.
She turned and saw Zach Johnson trotting over to her, his uniform. Zach was a sophomore linebacker and a good one too, but on a team like the Gladiators, with so many talented upperclassmen, Zach spent most of his time on the bench.
So Zach is inviting, uh, Perry to a party at Amy Sutton's house. So Amy Sutton is on the cheerleaders. She is really gunning for Ken and she has this whole big elaborate fantasy, about how she's going to be Ken's girlfriend, but this is the first we've ever heard of Zach Johnson. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So like Terry doesn't really want to go to the party because she's like nervous to even be around Ken.
[00:17:06] Will: Has Terry existed before this book?
[00:17:07] Marissa: Only to set up this book in the briefly in the last book.
Okay. Uh, but wouldn't you say like she's so in love, with Ken, like she's has such a big crush on Ken that she's like nervous to go to the party.
Yes. Yes. Which is. Weird and also totally authentic to teenage anxiety.
Yeah, totally. It's a thing that seems actually fairly warranted.
She's got this feeling about Ken. Like he doesn't really know. I exist my, my dream of falling in love with him or him falling in love with me is only that. And I know that it's just a fantasy, so why torture? Plus the party's at Amy's house. And everybody knows that Amy is like of gunning for Ken. And if they didn't know..
[00:17:48] Will: And Amy's been around the block. Amy has dated everyone apparently. And is that accurate with the previous books? Amy's just always got a new boyfriend?
[00:17:56] Marissa: Yes. And Amy has this interesting quality where like, at the end of the last book, Jessica was thinking that she was worried that Amy would.
Kind of just want to toy around with Ken and Ken was looking for something serious, but when Amy thinks about Ken in this book, she's thinking about... actually marked a particular passage. This is much later, but this is a glimpse into she was thinking about Ken.
Amy loves Ken
[00:18:20] Marissa: The two of them had so much to look forward to. There were the rest of the football games. She would be out front shearing for him as he carried the team to victory after victory. And then there was college.
Ken would probably go to a big university on a football scholarship and she could go to the same school. Maybe Ken would even end up playing professional football one day. Amy wouldn't mind that one bit.
She's basically like married to Ken daydream and she's got their whole lives planned out.
But this is what Amy does. She like falls madly in love with a boy for like five seconds. But do you remember how she is at her party?
Yes, I do. I mean, she's kind of, uh, really swinging for the fences with this public Ken relationship.
He walks into the party and she's like, it's the man of the hour
[00:19:06] Will: just like makes out with him publicly in front of everyone.
[00:19:09] Marissa: They were not even dating. She just plants a kiss full on his lips
[00:19:13] Will: and then like paragraphs go by. And then it says, And then she breaks away from the kiss and I'm like, whoa, they were kissing this whole time? You know, like, was
[00:19:20] Marissa: it just like lips against lips? Like, like no movement for like
20 seconds?
[00:19:26] Will: Everyone's just staring at this. Poor Terry
[00:19:29] Marissa: poor Terry is right. You know, also poor Ken cause he's like what? And he hears at the party, this rumor, that Amy is basically saying that they were an item, she's like "the secreting" it, right. She's like willing it into
existence. She's definitely manifesting this relationship,
which we could probably work in a high school relationship, especially with someone who's manipulating as Amy, and as like, sort of malleable as Ken, but.
I know we kind of stopped talking about boys, but there is another boy at the party that's worth talking about.
[00:20:07] Will: skip?
[00:20:08] Marissa: Yeah. It's almost like why does he even exist in this book, but there's this guy named Skip Harmon. Here's the funny moment I thought, um, Skip is Jessica's date to the dance or... the dance. An easy mistake to make to Amy's party. Dancing at this party are dancing.
let's see. I have so many notes.
[00:20:27] Will: I wrote no it's at the beginning, like, okay. Elizabeth Wakefield, dating Todd Wilkins, and then quickly went, this is not worth my time writing. These things are not nearly as important as I thought they were going to me.
[00:20:40] Marissa: Uh, well, they are .Important, but not to this book. Uh, the whole last book was all about Elizabeth dating Todd. Ken, Todd and Liz, or they're just standing around and, um, Jessica comes up to them. She's been dancing with Skip Harmon,
skip harmon
[00:20:55] Marissa: Hi Liz. Hi Todd. Great party. Huh? She asked. Sure is, Elizabeth agreed. Skip is a terrific dancer. You two look fabulous dancing together. Dancing isn't everything Jessica said rolling her eyes toward the ceiling. In answer to Elisabeth's quizzical look, she added "I'll tell you later."
[00:21:11] Will: Later. Does she ever tell her later? I don't think she does.
[00:21:14] Marissa: She does tell her later, but only after like, Skip has gotten worse. So whatever it is that he's done up to that point. Got it. Um, I wonder if I made an, a. I wonder if I made a note about skip 33, I put 33 exclamation point here. So they're still at the party. I'm the page 33 of this book. It's a long party.
We get a description of him to,
skip h
[00:21:36] Marissa: every time he passed a mirror, he would whip out a comb slick back his dark hair, and then smile at his reflection as if you were looking into a movie. To be this good looking and this talented? Skip sighed. Well, what can I say? I've been very fortunate.
[00:21:52] Will: He goes on a whole rant about his, his good fortune and his luck being talented, handsome. How he, it wasn't his, his choice, nothing he earned. It, you know, such a strange fellow, Skip.
[00:22:06] Marissa: And when he asked her to dance again and she says, no, that because she's tired, he says,
"can't keep up with me, huh? "Skip teased her.
What's the matter are you out of shape or something? No, but I am out of patience, Jessica replied.
She's like, she's not into it. So that's funny, but there's like, nothing really comes
of that
[00:22:26] Will: . there's no, payoff to Skip in this book,
[00:22:28] Marissa: Like I would call it a B story, but that's all the whole story.
[00:22:32] Will: Skip Sucks.
[00:22:35] Marissa: So Winston is there with his girlfriend, Maria, and they need to go home, but they're going to have to take the bus.
Oh my God.
[00:22:43] Will: No one takes the bus in sweet valley.
[00:22:44] Marissa: No, and it's because Winston's cars in
the shop or something
[00:22:49] Will: VW needs new tires this time.
[00:22:52] Marissa: That's great. Good memory. Um, you're kind of a car guy.
[00:22:57] Will: I don't understand how they work, but I, I, you know, I understand occasionally they need new tires.
[00:23:03] Marissa: So Ken like wants to get away from the party.
He's seems like he's maybe a little bit more introverted than people expect him to be, but also he's like weirded out by the Amy thing. He offers to drive Winston and Maria home kind of insists,
[00:23:17] Will: he's looking to get out of this party.
[00:23:19] Marissa: Yeah. And he says, he'll come back. You know, he's just gonna drop him off and he'll be right back.
And it'll be nice to kind of get away for a minute. Um, Terry is so feeling like shit about the whole Amy Ken thing, like she just feels really devastated, like, cause how could she compete with Amy Sutton for Ken Matthews? So it does like they're a perfect obvious pairing, you know? Right. So. Winston offers somebody somehow she ends up in this car too..
[00:23:44] Will: I thought it was pretty well done the way she ended up in the car. She's crying in the bathroom and talking to Elizabeth, probably what, meanwhile, um, Maria and Winston are arranging their ride with Ken,
[00:23:58] Marissa: You're doing SO good.
[00:23:59] Will: And I thank you very much. Just so many, so many names.
[00:24:05] Marissa: The Elizabeth thing is actually another facet to this particular kind of framework that some of these randos books have.
It's like, how are we going to get the twins involved? Jessica doesn't really have anything to do. Maybe she'll like spread a rumor or be like a way to get information around, which she is in this book. And then Elizabeth needs a job and Elizabeth job is always the same. It's to be the person that's going to fix everything through a phone call that happens.
And also through some, a scene like this, usually where she likes
[00:24:35] Will: she's a good friend.
[00:24:36] Marissa: Yeah. So she kind of knows Terry, Terry's been doing some stuff for the newspaper lately, I guess. And has recently made friends with Elizabeth. We didn't see any of that happened with the book, tells us that we take it for granted and then Elizabeth is stepping in and helping out, or is the person that the Rondo character thinks to call for advice. It has happened many times at this point in these books.
[00:25:00] Will: Yeah, I'd call her. She sounds like she knows everyone and everything is comfortable talking to other people's parents
[00:25:06] Marissa: And also like understands the true subtext of everybody's emotions. I mean, she's not always like that, but in this book, when Terry eventually calls her and is like explaining what's happening with Ken and her interpretation of the story, Elizabeth is like, "well, but maybe Ken feels this other way." And she, what she says is totally true. Anyway, we're, we're, uh, being vague, but we're going to get there.
So this is actually a really important moment because after Ken drops off Winston and Maria, he goes to drop off Terry and it's raining. It's raining so hard. Oh my gosh. I can hardly see in front of me and Terry's like, come inside. Right? Doesn't she say, come inside and wait out the rainstorm. She's so awkward.
But like they started talking about football
and it's okay.
[00:25:52] Will: I thought it was going to lead in a romantic direction. I honestly, to be fair at the party. There's a scene where, uh, this is me trying to figure out where this story's going and what's happening. I didn't trust Amy for one second. So there's a scene where.
Offers to get Ken a drink. And I was like, she's going to roofie him. Like, there's something going on here?
[00:26:15] Marissa: What does she do?
[00:26:16] Will: She gets him juice? Is that ..
[00:26:17] Marissa: Orange juice! She actually
doesn't even, she says that he comes into the party. She says, Hey Ken, can I get you a drink? And he's like, sure. And she says, orange juice, right? As if like she knows that's his order.
And I was just like these, I can not believe the juniors of Sweet Valley High are having a post football game party at Amy Sutton's house. No parents. And she's going to serve him orange juice. I mean, I love it.
[00:26:39] Will: He's depleted of his vitamin C after the game.
[00:26:43] Marissa: This is just not what you think of as a stereotypical, like,
[00:26:47] Will: but the way that she, she exits the scene and we don't go with her and then she comes back and she's just being so manipulative.
I was like, she's, she's up to no. Good. And then he's driving on the dangerous wet road and I'm like, oh, the roofie's going to kick in.
Well, the, the cover of the book, the teaser makes it seem. Like, what, what
does it say?
[00:27:09] Marissa: Will Ken's life be ruined in one tragic moment?
[00:27:12] Will: Yeah. In one tragic moment. And I guess it is tragic because it's totally random and is not a cosmic or karmic punishment for anything it's truly bad luck. Um, but I thought it was going to be a cautionary tale of sorts where it's like oh, mess with the wrong people and you know, this is what's going to happen. But no, it was just bad luck. She didn't do anything malicious. She's just really overplaying her hand trying to get this boy to date here. So fast forward, back to the car. It's dark, it's wet. It's very rainy and dangerous slick roads, I suppose.
And Ken gets in a car accident with a tree avoids, a drunk driver
[00:27:53] Marissa: Yeah, there's a drunk driver whose fault it really is. Ken was driving really slow and there's somebody with the like headlights careening really fast, like right toward him. And so he swerved to avoid the drunk driver and hits a tree.
[00:28:04] Will: and they're pretty delicate with how they deal with the drunk driver. I thought it wasn't totally written off and it wasn't over the line.
Like he wasn't belligerently drunk. Like he was very sad. There's a mention of a breathalyzer. He gets led to a cop car, but it's not too explicit. You're definitely left to fill in the blanks a little bit. And then later the kids are all like "some drunk driver ran him off the
road and he hit a tree."
[00:28:29] Marissa: The drunk driver is like crying. He's like a middle-aged man.
He's like, oh, I can't believe this happened. Yeah. Um, but that we see all of that stuff through Elizabeth and Todd and Jessica's eyes because they are driving home together. Jessica is like excited to get away from Skip Harmon. And a moment happened that, um, is tragic and heartbreaking, but also seemed like a real, like potential kind of merch opportunity for Sweet Valley Diaries.
Okay. So here's what. Um, they're driving and they see an accident, right? They see this ax to the site of this accident.
Accident!
[00:29:06] Marissa: It looks like a bad one. There's an ambulance. Todd said pointing the ambulance was pulled over next to a crumpled white car. Todd isn't that? A white Toyota like Ken's? Elizabeth asked. Stodd top...
Sorry.
Todd stopped the car and stared at the wreckage. The front end of the white car was crumpled like an accordion. The windshield had a gaping hole in it, and there was shattered glass everywhere. It's a Toyota all right, Todd said. Elizabeth strained to see the back of the Toyota as they slowly passed by.
Ken had two bumper stickers in his car. That's wrong.
Ken had two bumper stickers on his car. One simply had the name of the school on it. And another said, "Honk if you love the Gladiators." She tried to focus on the relatively unharmed bumper, but it was difficult with all the flashing lights. She was able to make out the words, "love the Gladiators." She felt her heart leap in her chest.
[00:30:17] Marissa: So what do you think would be the better bumper sticker branding opportunity for, for the podcast? Is it "honk if you love the gladiators" or just "love the Gladiators"? Um,
I liked the, I liked the idea of the merch somehow representing the moment from the story where it's like half torn away.
[00:30:37] Will: It's it's but he survived. It's not a fatal night. It's a fateful night.
[00:30:41] Marissa: See, this is, we're celebrating the fact that Ken Matthews is alive, he's alive,
[00:30:47] Will: but is it a life worth living, which is the, the, I guess that's really
[00:30:54] Marissa: the takeaway for the rest of the rest of the book. Is his life going to be worth living or not?
[00:30:59] Marissa: Okay. We're back in a new location. Does it sound different? Oh my gosh. It was like the ceiling about lower or something. So we are displaced. Yes. But displaced to a place
[00:31:14] Will: and not forgotten
[00:31:16] Marissa: displaced. That's beautiful. That's a really beautiful sentiment. Um, we just had to stop talking cause it was so emotional.
You know, the poor Ken, could he be dead?
[00:31:26] Will: No.
[00:31:27] Marissa: Well, he couldn't be, we are, we did already say that nobody died, but they do. Uh, somebody does say, before we know what's going on with Ken,
ken dead?
[00:31:36] Marissa: Ken Matthews was on his way to the hospital. He was unconscious and from what they had seen, his chances didn't look good.
[00:31:43] Will: They really drive it home. The idea that Ken could die at any moment. He's fine...but he could also die.
[00:31:49] Marissa: Yeah. But then it seems like what's actually happened is that he has received some bruises and scratches to his face. Primarily. No other part of his body seems damaged.
He is very touch and go,
[00:32:02] Will: can I read a quote that I wrote down in full in my notes, this is something that a doctor says to him once he's woken back up. Right. The doctor says
Doctor
[00:32:12] Will: once the swelling from the bruises and the small cuts goes down, you're going to look exactly the same as you did before.
Like as a way of consoling, like, don't worry. You're going to be exactly as, as you were. And it worked on me, it threw me off. I thought, oh, he's going to be fine. I did not see the, the, I was, I was blindsided. I was blindsided.
[00:32:38] Marissa: Well, and is that a football reference? No, it's not a blindness reference because.
Uh, Ken has these bandages that totally are covering his face.
[00:32:48] Will: I imagine like the invisible man?
[00:32:50] Marissa: It was like that! With like a little slit for his mouth and, oh, I mean immediately in the aftermath of having seen this accident, Liz Todd, and go back to Amy's party and like tell Amy what happened. Amy is distraught.
She wants him to the hospital right away. Cause like, this is her man, you know? But then they, Elizabeth is like, no, one's, they're not going to let you see him. Or somebody says that. And then they resolve to go the next day. Yeah. So Amy goes there with Jessica the next day and also, you know, Mr. And Mrs. Matthews are there and say like, yeah, no, he's can't have visitors yet. Cause he's still in the ICU and Jessica notices, that Amy seems sort of relieved. Like all of this is like a little bit much for. Which is understandable. I mean, they're not actually dating. And her whole interest in Ken is basically this daydream that she has that not real
what's interesting is that she never comes to the realization that she was too much and pushed him away.
And, you know, poor Terry thinks she's the reason that he got in this car accident, but really you can draw. To Amy. Oh, yes. Amy's I guess over zealousness in trying to lock this man down, forced him to leave the party, which is why he got
in the car. Right. Um, and instead like nobody ever connects those dots, but Amy does like flat out confront Terry and tell her that it is her fault.
Because if Terry hadn't, I mean, it's all, everything that is in the accusation is not true. Like if Terry hadn't sourced him. Yeah. Well that must be, it must be protected. She doesn't know. But she actually, I think doesn't realize that Ken wanted to leave her party. We'll never really know. Um, but we didn't even, we, we stopped at the bandages and the invisible man, like eventually.
Yeah, I guess nobody else, no other kids are there. It's just Ken and his parents and the doctor, but eventually it's time for the bandages to come off and they all come off and it's like, he looks exactly the same, but then
what does he ask? He says something like, when are you going to take the menus, this off my eyes.
So sad. And the doctor's like, oh, we were afraid of this, but there was no way to know until we took them off your
[00:35:00] Will: eyes. So I have not Googled this yet, but my assumption is that this would be the rarest possible outcome from a car crash to just go blind, to be totally fine. Cuts and bruises. Yeah, it
[00:35:15] Marissa: didn't go good with either.
I mean, I, so since we're going to be talking for the rest of the book about Ken Matthews and his struggle with blindness. I mean, I'll read some quotes. I think there are places where the book actually handles it fairly. Well. I just want to say, like, if we ever feel like we're making fun of the book, we're making fun of the book.
The, I have actually really recently, um, gotten a chance to talk with some people for another podcast project about people who like Ken Matthews, uh, no, not in a car accident. I don't think I don't really know the details, but they became, uh, blind after having been sighted for the first part of their lives.
They're awesome. Normal people. Like there's nothing. I. This
[00:35:57] Will: is what makes a lot about blindness. Like it makes a big to do about it and it is both warranted and also laying it on
a
[00:36:04] Marissa: little thick. I mean, we'll see, I think it handles it. Okay. But I just want to, I guess I'm just trying to hedge my bets here just in case it comes up.
We cross come across sounding in anyway, callous, it's just that the book is ridiculous. Well,
[00:36:16] Will: I, as a joke was going to pitch you on the idea of wearing blindfolds to record this, and then do you know, 30 pages later, poor Terry comes up with that idea herself. And I was like, oh man, this is
[00:36:31] Marissa: Elizabeth doing her Elizabeth thing.
[00:36:34] Will: She plants the seed
[00:36:35] Marissa: of the idea. So basically after Ken Is blind, uh, Jessica and Elizabeth go to visit him
[00:36:40] Will: what page does he become blind on? I was trying to track the structure
[00:36:45] Marissa: it's right around page 59 because I did, I marked this down
[00:36:48] Will: pretty deep in there for the premise to take shape
[00:36:50] Marissa: at page fifty-nine..
It's like two thirds of the, this book is 150 pages long. ,
okay. This is just before the bandages come off. I thought this was kind of funny.
Ken's Dad
[00:36:58] Marissa: Ken breathed a sigh of relief as the gauze was removed and he could actually feel the air on his head again, he raised his hand to the top of his head. Whoa. He said with half a laugh, where's my hair? We had to shave it, Dr. Arquette explained in order to treat some of the cuts and to take some x-rays, don't worry. It'll grow back in a few weeks. That's good. Ken grinned. I'm going to look pretty scary on the football field right there. You always do Mr. Matthews replied, especially with that arm of yours,
[00:37:26] Will: how fast his hair grow?
[00:37:28] Marissa: We don't know, but I thought that was such a funny, like dad comment, you always do look scary, son. You always
do.
[00:37:34] Will: But the dad knows that you assume the doctor has told the dad like your
[00:37:39] Marissa: reaction suggest to me that they already knew
[00:37:42] Will: overcompensate the possibility of a joke, like with a dad joke. Okay.
[00:37:46] Marissa: So not long after that Jessica and Elizabeth come by and, Ken momentarily thinks about like, pretending that he can see still, like he doesn't want to deal with it.
And they brought him a car that has like everybody in the club in a school basically signed it and they're like, read the poem and he's like, I'm blind. He just blurts it out. I
do love that. We get a little bit of his thought process. He considered. Saying, oh, I have a headache. Can you read it for me?
But then he does the right thing. He's honest.
Yeah. Although when he had that, I was like, oh, that's a good idea, Ken. That would work, that would totally work.
Yeah. But it is like at a certain point. So they go back to the school and they, I think Jessica intercepts Amy at the hospital and mentions it to her and Amy leaves, she's like, fuck this.
Yeah.
[00:38:35] Will: For, for someone who is that into him, uh, she bails just as quickly as this romance began.
[00:38:41] Marissa: She has come to visit him at the hospital at some point and sent some letters. And Ken is like touched by that early on. But then he gets sent to this rehab facility for like a month, a month that gets totally elided in this book.
It's like, you turn a page to a new chapter and it's like
[00:38:58] Will: A lot happens very quickly in this poor boy's life. Yeah, it's just a few weeks at the end of the book they talk about, oh, remember just a few weeks ago, like, oh, wow. I didn't realize all this could happen in such a short span of time. He went to a school for the blind and learned how to live his life as a blind person.
He, he did get screwed a little bit. He did not get a dog. I feel like a seeing eye dog would have done wonders for poor ken.
[00:39:25] Marissa: Yeah. He could have had a buddy, but yeah, no chapter nine starts after like the last thing that happened was that Terry went to visit Ken at the hospital and, he was happy to see her and, she cries at him because she feels so guilty.
Amy has like full on confronted her, like blaming her for the accident as well as we mentioned earlier now. So she's all sad. She goes to the hospital and. Um, or wait, is that, did that happen already that Amy confronted her or was that yeah. Yeah, it did. So,
The beginning of chapter nine... Ron Jablonksi.
Yes. Which
[00:40:03] Will: is a fantastic name. Yeah.
[00:40:05] Marissa: Yeah. Um, when I'm naming characters, I tend to give them last names like Jablonski because
[00:40:09] Will: A lot of Polish people in your stuff.
[00:40:11] Marissa: Yeah. Everybody that, when I was growing up, this was the kind of last names people had
where I lived,
[00:40:16] Will: they roll off the tongue in a very, in a very nice way.
[00:40:19] Marissa: Yeah.
Ron Jablonski
[00:40:20] Marissa: Attitude is everything. Ron Jablonski told Ken, if I keep saying that over and over again, it's because I want to drill it into your head. Ken nodded, he didn't know what Ron looked like, but he sure had learned to recognize his voice. Ron had been his counselor, therapist and friend during the month Ken had spent at Holly field.
So it's like, oh, okay. He's been there for a month already now. oh, I know. I, sorry. I understand what I was confused before. So Terry doesn't come to visit Ken at the hospital. Amy accosts Terry, Terry wants to go visit Ken, and Elizabeth is like, you can't visit him because he's at this facility rehab facility for people who've become blind and you can't,
no one can visit him.
He's
not allowed no visitors,
[00:40:59] Will: but then, Terry's that one that asks. "Hey, do you mind working your Sweet Valley magic?" She
[00:41:06] Marissa: basically is like, "Can't you talk to his parents and tell them how important it is?" , Because she wants to apologize to Ken for what she now feels is her fault.
So she's
[00:41:15] Will: His blindness, by the way, it shook me. It really, it really did catch me by surprise. I did not think that that's where this story was going. And then I, it just went full, full into it. Uh, a premise about the, what if the star football player became blind? I just, it took me, it took the book this long to figure out what it was about.
And now we're into an interesting premise.
[00:41:39] Marissa: well, this
is kind of a funny side effect of having you read the ebook because on the physical copy on the back of the book, the second paragraph starts,
Back cover
"then one rainy night, Ken is in a terrible car accident that leaves him blind,"
[00:41:51] Will: Yep, nope. Didn't read that. This was truly a rollercoaster.
[00:41:56] Marissa: Ah, well rollercoaster for Ken too, because he is when he's about, it's about time for him to leave. Now, his month is up and he goes into his room to kind of like pack things up. And he's got all these cards from students at sweet valley.
Ken's Cards
[00:42:13] Marissa: Ron had read each one to Ken as it arrived. And he had re-read them.
Whenever Ken felt lonely, his favorite card was the homemade one from the football team. It was shaped like a football and a shoelace was threaded through it. Ken ran his hand over all his friends' signatures. He could feel the impressions, the pens, and may in the paper, remembering the guys on the team made tears come to Ken's eyes.
He was funny. His eyes couldn't see anymore, but they sure were good at crying. In his whole life, Ken hadn't cried as much as he had in the last month. There were all kinds of cards from lots of different people. Mr. Collins --
should remember him. He's
--coach Schultz, Olivia Davidson, the Wakefields, Cara Walker.
Amy had written too, but both of the letters had come a long time ago, in the first week. Ken knew them by the scented envelopes that were Amy's trademark. Her letters had been friendly, but there wasn't much to them beyond the same old, "you'll be fine" that most people wrote. With a wave of his hand, Ken sent the cards, flying to the door, not one of these get well wishes had brought him any closer to seeing again.
You know, so he's about to go back to sweet valley high and he feels bad about it. Understandably. So then we get his first day at sweet valley high.
[00:43:27] Will: They mentioned later that he had gotten like a, a private walkthrough to, to learn the layout
because he was doing a lot of like step counting to like figure out his way around. And he hadn't changed
the step. I had never thought about that, but it's, it's clear that whoever wrote this book did the very minimum amount of research into what happens when you go blind.
Like, what are the things that they teach you immediately? It's like, Count your steps. That's, that's where we're going to start.
[00:43:54] Marissa: Hi, Marissa chiming in real quick. After listening back to this episode, I thought maybe it would be a good idea for me to actually look into this whole step counting thing. And lo and behold, I I quickly uncovered many articles written by people who are blind referring to the idea that they count their steps as a "popular misconception." And that this is not really a recommended method for getting around because it's not particularly reliable. Uh, it's possible that this is something that has just changed in the course of the last 30 years, in terms of the way that people are taught. But that's just me giving the ghost writer the benefit of the doubt.
I'll put some links in the show notes to what I uncovered.
It seems to me like, if. There was a popular misconception. It might've been really easy for an author to just trade in that rather than doing the research, anyway, I thought it was worth popping in to comment on after the fact, rather than just deleting that whole part. Now back to the show!
And just to call myself out here, like if I had really been thinking about this, I probably could have tried to to ask one of the people that I have met that is blind and to be the guest on this book, but then you would have been deprived of reading this.
Beautiful. Okay. Well soon that's what Terry is going to do because so Ken, I mean, just to, I guess like fast forward through it, Ken is having a really tough time in all of his classes. Understandably. Winston on the first day I was leading them around and it has to like meet him, like I have to arrange to like meet each other between every class so that one student can lead him to the next class.
[00:45:29] Will: The acknowledgement that he wasn't a great student to begin with. And now things are going to be waiting.
[00:45:34] Marissa: Yeah. It's like he's recording his lectures, but then the teacher will say something like open your books. Dammit, you know, he's still learning to read braille. I passed a braille Institute on the way over here, by the way.
Really? Yeah. Well, on the way to the first location and then, Amy like used to sit by him in one of these classes and now she doesn't,
[00:45:59] Will: they're treating him like a leper.
[00:46:00] Marissa: But then Terry goes to talk to him and they actually have like a great conversation. Uh, it's really nice. I think that might be when he goes out by the football field on his own.
He goes rogue. Winston's supposed to meet him. And that's when he overhear a Scott Trost talking to some other football player, he learns a couple things.
[00:46:20] Will: That Scott is quarterback of the team. Yes. What else does you learn? Oh, that Amy and he are dating, right? Yeah. The
Amy is like going after him, pursuing him hard. She has dropped cam like a hot potato.
[00:46:33] Marissa: Here's what it says.
Scott and Amy
[00:46:34] Marissa: So are you going with her?
Said an old timey way to say it. Yeah. Ken heard a distant voice say. A couple of guys seemed to be heading back to school from the athletic fields. She's been after me to take her out. That's for sure. Ever since coach made me quarterback.
Oh my God. It's so transparent.
From his position on the bench, Ken, tried to figure out who he was listening to. It sounded like Scott Trost, but whom was he talking about?
[00:47:01] Will: I wonder if I'd be able to, to identify my friends just by their voice. I feel like I do a decent job. I was, I think I was silently judging him.
I'm like, you don't know who these
[00:47:10] Marissa: people are. Well, I don't do they ever even say no, but this is a cool, this is the cool example of when we're in Ken's POV, after he becomes blind, this is how it is. It's like , if he doesn't know who's talking, we don't know who's talking right there, you know, and it sort of comes up as it becomes clear to Ken.
"you know, Amy, she's got to have somebody to go out with. Another boy said Ken was certain that the second guy was Skip Harmon.
There you go.
Ken's breath caught in his chest. Could they mean Amy Sutton?
[00:47:40] Will: The only Amy that's ever been referenced?
Of course it's Amy Sutton.
Yeah. So
[00:47:45] Marissa: he feels like crap, but then Terry comes out and they started talking and he forgets, you know, the pain of his blindness for a little while.
[00:47:54] Will: When she starts basically nursing him back to, to health.
It's very like, what do they call it? Nightingale syndrome. Isn't it.
Uh, where you fall in love with the universe, like Florence Nightingale. I mean, there's Stockholm syndrome, but that's when you fall over with your kidnapper. So that's not what
happened. Well, I think it's, I think there's a Nightingale reference.
Um, I'm remembering from, from something or some movie. And I caught that very early on. I'm like, this is not going to go well, I see where this, this conflict is going.
[00:48:24] Marissa: What happens is that Terry, like the first thing is that Terry talks to him, but at some point in the conversation, he has this moment where he's like, oh no, she is just talking to me out of pity.
Like, I like this girl. I'd like to spend more time with her, but you know what? She wouldn't want to spend time with me. And he gets all solid and runs away. And Terry takes this kind of personally. And so she calls Elizabeth and that's when Elizabeth advisors heard it. You know, I read this weird thing in a magazine.
This is kind of strange to try, but Terry has said, I wish I could understand what was going on inside of him. And Elizabeth recommends that Terry cover her eyes for a little while. I tried to spend some time like blind. Yeah. So this on the face of, it seems a little silly, but the way that it's actually written about I thought was pretty like surprisingly nuanced for sweet valley high.
And
[00:49:13] Will: I just, as a side note in a, in a Boy Meets World episode, I feel like this would lead to the character showing up to school, you know, with their eyes taped, shut and sunglasses on and a walking stick, trying to live the life of a blind person for a day to see how it is. And it would not go well there either, but
would be way funnier.
[00:49:31] Marissa: Yeah. This is not played for comedy. So Terry's walking around her house with a scarf over her eyes. Uh, I guess it must be a pretty thick scarf because otherwise that wouldn't do too much, although your eyes are closed underneath the scarf. Right.
[00:49:45] Will: Scarf is there to keep you honest.
[00:49:47] Marissa: Yeah. So she's understanding that this is kind of scary, like to not really know where you're going. So she's relating to Ken on that level.
Blind
The reality of blindness was turning out to be a lot harsher than Terry had ever imagined.
[00:49:59] Marissa: It's kind of a strange choice of words. The reality is like this isn't, that's not what this is, but okay. Whatever. every simple task she tried gave her a whole new sense of respect for how much can it already learned. He was really doing well at this. At school, he walked at a normal pace by himself. That alone was a major achievement. When she finally managed to get some juice into a glass, Terry found a chair next to the window and sank into it. A sweet fragrant breeze blew in the kitchen. Terry took a sip of the juice, then stood up and walked over to the sliding glass door that opened onto the deck.
The smooth glass felt cool to her fingertips, but standing at the window made her sad. Ken would never be able to look out a window again. Blindness had robbed him of even the simplest pleasures. Suddenly a bird started chirping. The sound was startling. It stood out like a bright color against the darkness in her head, standing at the window.
She listened intently, drinking in the music. She must have heard those birds in the backyard every day of her life, but she had never really listened to them before, never realized how beautiful they sounded. Being blind was terrible, but it did have its compensations, Terry suddenly realized. She was hearing and touching things she had merely taken for granted before.
Still, when she took off the blindfold, a few minutes later, Terry was immensely relieved to have her eyesight back then a feeling of sadness overwhelmed her. She had only been blind for an hour. Ken might be blind for the rest of his life.
Oh, which I guess we should say the doctor has allowed some wiggle room that Ken might get his eyesight back.
[00:51:31] Will: Don't count your chickens before,
[00:51:34] Marissa: like, okay. I better not get my hopes up.
[00:51:35] Will: Another instance in that passage of a sweet valley kid, drinking juice as their beverage of choice did not clean up the spilled juice.
So we never saw that. And you know what, Terry takes this experience and turns it into like, what feels like a very deep understanding of blindness, because suddenly now when she offers to hang out with Ken and like, she wants to take him to the beach and she, she like, kind of knows exactly what to say to him.
She narrates what's happening,
yeah, yeah. I never thought about that, but that was clever.
[00:52:09] Marissa: Yeah. It's like, she's driving and she's like, I'm on going on this street now I'm stopping at the stoplight. Then I'm going to turn on this street because she felt like not knowing what was happening was part of what made it scary.
And they get to the beach and he's sort of sad, like, oh, I used to come running on the beach and she was like, you can run, you know, like, I'll be right here.
It's a private cove, basically.
[00:52:31] Will: It's not the Sweet Valley beach. It's North Haven, which is just vacant. It's just a two miles just vacant
You know, one of those vacant beachess between,
[00:52:40] Marissa: uh, like Newport and Santa Barbara of which there are so many, you know, one of those, um, uh, there are parts of the beach that are quieter than others, for sure.
They spend a few days, like she invites them to a football game and he's a little bit iffy on it, but he goes and has a good time.
Right. It was a romance plot, but neither of them is acknowledging the romantic part
of it. Yeah. And I was actually surprised when it came back to, Ken at a certain point it's like, he's going to kiss her.
And then he's like, oh no, shoot. There was nothing romantic between us. Like she would hate that. And I was just like, oh, okay. I didn't. I thought that they were like, had become an item, but I guess
not.
[00:53:20] Will: Yeah. For someone who's the star quarterback of the football team, his, his confidence is, is quite low. And I appreciate that perspective.
You know, he's not super cocky. He's not, you know, overconfident and just, you know, assuming that everybody loves him, he's like, no, she must just be taking care of me and I'm thinking too much about it.
[00:53:39] Marissa: Yeah. And then once that realization. He now he has a whole new, weird attitude towards Terry, which this is the book is winding down at this point, but he's like,
[00:53:51] Will: Winding down and building towards what we hope is them getting together
officially.
[00:53:56] Marissa: This is like the part of the romance novel, where the two characters are convinced that the other one is all wrong for them. And that, that can never work out. So, uh, it's like the last hurdle, they both they've fallen in love, but like they can't confess their love to each other for reasons inside their own mind. Yeah. So Ken is like simultaneously reliant on Terry for every little thing to the point that he is not doing things on his own as much as he should be. And also he's kind of like being a Dick to her because it's like, if he's friendly to her, it'll only be making him feel his love for her more?
[00:54:33] Will: He's keeping it very professional. He's treating her like an employee. I feel like. There's a distance that he's forcing by his behavior. Yeah. I got, I felt, I felt like for a book and a series that seems very broad and soapy, this was accurate, I think, to a certain extent and nuanced in the way that people behave.
Well, there
[00:54:55] Marissa: was one part... So when Terry eventually calls Elizabeth again and, uh, like for the, at least the third time in this book, you know, Elizabeth to the rescue, like help advise me, um, she called and she kind of tells Liz that he's kind of been a jerk lately. And Liz is like, have you ever told him how you felt?
Cause like everybody else knows that Terry has a crush on Ken and has like all year, Elizabeth says,
Liz love advice
[00:55:20] Marissa: "Terry, when you see him today, why don't you tell Ken how you feel about him?" Elizabeth suggested. "That might make things easier between you. You'll know one way or the other if he's interested in you, you know, as a girlfriend.' Terry, let out a little laugh, "I'll try, but I don't think I want to know the answer."
And that was just like, oh, it's such a gut punch because I have been Terry like so many times in high school and beyond, you know, this thing of like, well, I get to spend all this time with this person that I have strong feelings for. Like maybe it'll just work itself out, but what's happening with Terry.
I don't know if this ever happened in one of the situations for me, but you know, is that can actually does have feelings for her, but he has his own reasons for not
voicing them.
They're
[00:56:00] Will: both doing the same thing. To to the situation.
[00:56:04] Marissa: So there's a big fight that they have the next time they see each other,
[00:56:07] Will: at the Droids concert?
[00:56:09] Marissa: They do go to the droids concert, but that's where Terry is kind of like, he's been kind of a dick lately
[00:56:14] Will: Are the droids, a recurring band?
[00:56:17] Marissa: Okay. Usually referred to as sweet valley high's own rock band. They're a great,
[00:56:21] Will: That's a great name. I mean, I assume that they're a great band and I would enjoy,
[00:56:27] Marissa: I wish I wish they
were real.
Is it, do you think it's a star wars thing? Like we're in the eighties, there's a band it's like, oh, like the Droids.
Okay. I think it's gotta be, um, do you have your book handy? Um, I, yeah. Do you want to read, do a dramatic reading of this fight with me? Is that too intense? No, not at all. Let me bring it up.
This'll be our first time probably acting together since grad school.
Did we not do one of these on my previous episode?
Oh, maybe. I don't know. I listen to. When I introduced you, I said your full name, but I didn't say a single thing about you.
[00:57:04] Will: I liked the mystery.
[00:57:06] Marissa: So what gladiators may or may not know is that Will, is a, director, a film director, and also other things and writer. And so, you know, you can tell me about my performance.
I could take it.
[00:57:19] Will: Oh no,
FIght
Ken, spending time with you was my idea.
[00:57:24] Marissa: You know that, but I can't go on like this forever. I've got my own homework to take care of too.
[00:57:29] Will: I'm sure you do.
[00:57:31] Marissa: Ken. I'm not saying I don't want to see you anymore.
[00:57:34] Will: Aren't you? It was fun to play candy striper for awhile, but now you're sick of it. I understand perfectly.
[00:57:40] Marissa: That's not true. I only want to help you Ken!
[00:57:43] Will: Look, Terry, you're not blind. You can't help me because you have no idea what it's like. So why don't you just get out of here? Like everyone else.
[00:57:53] Marissa: Terry stood up ready to run out, but she couldn't let him have the last word she had to tell him how she felt about him. You're right. I don't know what it's like to be blind, but I do know it's not the end of the world Ken! Plenty of blind people have accomplished great things.
And you can too, if you stop sitting back and feeling sorry for yourself, letting other people do everything for you.
[00:58:13] Will: I said, get out of here!
[00:58:16] Marissa: Terry stormed through the open doorway, then spun around to face him, tears streaming down her face. All right. I see now that you've been taking advantage of me this whole time. Oh, you like it when I help you out and do things for you, it's fine with you that I make you feel good about yourself, but you ever stopped once to consider how I feel?
Why in the world did you think I was doing all these things for you anyway? Because I love you. That's why. And if you never noticed that you're even blinder than you think,
[00:58:43] Will: all right, we'll go for another take.
[00:58:44] Marissa: I know we should have your wife come out in, but she's literally currently teaching an acting class.
[00:58:51] Will: So this is true. This is true, but, uh, yeah, it's really dramatic and it's just like Ken and Ken, when
[00:58:58] Marissa: the chapter closes ken's house. end
Terry turned and ran down the front sidewalk to her car. She heard Ken calling her name, but she didn't stop. So Ken's like calling after, you know, he is, it's been a big revelation.
He's just like, oh my gosh. You know, so what does Ken do?
[00:59:15] Will: He yells Terry Terry. I mean, that's the beginning of the next chapter. It's
[00:59:20] Marissa: an, it's a, it's a direct pickup. So yeah, he calls her house after we cry, like sits on the porch and like mopes for 15,
[00:59:32] Will: it goes into, I think what we can admit as a classic romcom ending, you know, where he resolves his, his inner flaw and does a big romantic gesture.
Something that's very difficult for him, which in this case is doing things without her. So he figures out a way to, um, well he first realizes she's not home. I know where she is. She must be at the beach. He rejects everyone's offers to give him a ride to the beach and says, he's going to do it on his own.
He storms out of his house. He gets to the bus stop, gets
on the bus. Sweet valley has
buses. Oh, great buses that no one would ever take. There's no reason to ever take the bus. So the bus driver's really nice. He gets to the beach, he gets off, he counts his steps. , you know,
he knows that's where she is. And he knows the beach really well because he spent so much time with her there.
And it
feels like this like epic long. Yeah.
[01:00:27] Marissa: It seems like it must've been really hard. He has to like ask people strangers for advice, like, you know, is this the bus stop and bus driver? Can you tell me like, things that, I mean, we've probably seen, I mean, living in the city, like you see people that are navigating the world like this who are blind all the time.
You know, it happened in Chicago recently, there was a guy getting off the Metro rail who myself and several other people were kind of like telling him where the stairs were and thinking, you know, helping him go the right way. And I just remember thinking. This must be his whole day, like, cause he's, this is clearly a guy who's like brave enough to risk, you know, walking down a train platform and not knowing where the stairs are. I mean, I don't know what his story was, but I was just thinking like, wow, that must be like, on the one hand, I don't want to like, he's, he's out there living his life. So I don't want to treat him with like pity, but on the other hand, like, oh, that would be so hard to have to navigate the world that way, especially in a new situation, right.
With no buddy to like lead you around.
[01:01:25] Will: Well, I could hear the music, you know, it felt like the end of a movie and they run into each other's
arms and at the setting they're back at the beach, which is the place that began their relationship. Yeah, it was very, it was very nice. The one thing I will say is that I.
I wish that he didn't get his sight back.
[01:01:43] Marissa: Well, yeah. And so what happens is that there's a big romantic moment at the end and it goes like this.
Romantic Moment
[01:01:49] Marissa: Suddenly his lips met hers in a warm, passionate kiss, standing on the beach, the wind tousling their hair and the waves crashing around them, their kiss said more than all the words in the world could ever say.
This is very Princess Bride
For the first time, Terry didn't have any doubts about the way Ken was feeling. "Terry you're too good for me," he whispered in her ear when the kiss was over. " We're good together, Ken," she replied, resting her head on his chest. "You're right. And we're going to be even better," he said, squeezing her waist. "Ken," she said, excitedly, "the sunset is so beautiful.
I wish you could see it. The sky is light pink and the sun is gold. Like it's on fire." Ken removed his sunglasses and turned his face toward the ocean. "Are there clouds?" he asked. "Only a few," she answered. "The sun's over this way, right?" he asked, pointing. "Yes," Terry answered, her voice quivering. "How did you know that?"
"Because I can feel its warmth," Ken answered. "But you know what, Terry?" when I looked that way, there's a brightness... a definite brightness."
And then a second later, he's like, I don't see it anymore. And she's like, Ken the sun went down? So it's like, your vision is coming back, you know? So that's like basically the end of the book, like he doesn't get his vision back, but it's like, he's gonna get his vision back.
Which, I mean, when the doctor said he might get his vision back, I was like, okay, so they're going to have Ken be blind for like a book or two. And then that's what happens in his books. people are differently abled for, like, a couple of books and then they get a
taste of it.
[01:03:17] Will: Yeah. It's almost, it's almost like he's been rewarded, you know, in the same way that, that he was punished unfairly. He is also rewarded unfairly. There's a balance to this universe for
[01:03:33] Marissa: sure. Yeah. The, oh, that's interesting.
[01:03:36] Will: And then we don't really know in the epilogue the final chapter, uh, if he's still blind or not, do we like, even in that chapter, they're running, it's all about Patty Gilbert and Deedee Gordon, and it's about setting up the next book, I assume.
Yeah. But yeah, I mean maybe he's, he can see again, or maybe they're, they've established that the two of them run when he can't see, so
[01:03:59] Marissa: yeah. Well, I guess find out next season on sweet valley diaries.
would you care to tease the next book, which will be the premiere of season seven or sweet valley diaries.
[01:04:14] Will: It sounds like there's something malicious going on. I don't, I it's
[01:04:20] Marissa: Patty. So Patty Gilbert, Gladiators, if you don't remember her, she is a friend of Dee Dee Gordon's and in some of the Dee Dee books, or like Bill and Dee Dee books, she factors in, but this is definitely gonna be her first time in the spotlight.
[01:04:33] Will: And her boyfriend is off at college and he's....
Jim is coming back this weekend and they haven't seen each other in a while. And she's really nervous. Patty's really nervous. She wants it all to be perfect. When her boyfriend comes back,
she seems to think that maybe he's cheating on her and Dee Dee
seems... I read this as Dee Dee's, the one who's cheating with.
Oh, that would be quite, he seems to know way too much. And she's withholding.
[01:05:01] Marissa: I wouldn't worry about it. I wouldn't worry about Jim. I'm sure he's off doing wonderful things for you and like planning a great,
[01:05:08] Will: yeah, I see. Straight through
[01:05:10] Marissa: you. Well, do you have the, the part about coming next month as well?
Would you read the whole thing and the gladiators are going to be pretty excited?
Teaser 1
[01:05:20] Will: Will everything work out between Patty and Jim? Find out in Sweet Valley High Number 61: Boy Trouble
and then there's another one.
Teaser 2
[01:05:27] Will: Coming next month, the first Sweet Valley High Superstar Edition: Lila's Story.
As if that's what we wanted. Lila, who's been a terror in this book. It's like, you know what? I want a whole spinoff superstar Lila.
[01:05:40] Marissa: We didn't even tell them about the scene with the cake and all the people at the world's largest cake. there's this moment with a cake where they like are having a welcome back to school party that Elizabeth and Enid have like arranged for Ken and, um,
There's this big, uh, big,
Cake
[01:05:55] Marissa: a huge rectangular box containing a sheet cake that read "welcome home, Ken." "Poor, Ken," Jessica said with a shake of her head, "he won't even be able to read the cake." "Jessica," Elizabeth replied impatiently, "ken doesn't need people feeling sorry for him. The cake will taste just as good, even if he can't read it, besides it's really to show him that we're happy he's back."
And then Jessica says,
"Are you really happy he's back?"
She's just like... it's so sad. Like it's and Elizabeth is pissed off at Jessica, but she's like, at least she's being honest about how she feels as opposed to like Amy who never apologizes to Ken or says anything about Scott Trost to Ken. But there's this other moment that I thought was hilarious.
Uh, also around the cake, just the next.
Lila Cake
[01:06:35] Marissa: I think this whole cake ideas stupid Lila Fowler complained, when they found her at the locker adjusting a tortoise shell barrette in her long light brown hair. I mean, how's he even going to know there's a cake for him, "we're all going to yell, surprise, and then we'll tell him that's how." Enid answered.
I love that
Lila gave a bored shrug. "All right," she said, "I'll be there even though he won't know if I am or not."
[01:07:00] Will: This was my favorite part of the whole book. I can't believe that I didn't bring it up because that scene was everything.
[01:07:05] Marissa: Well, the next sentence says,
contd
[01:07:06] Marissa: Enid looked as though she was about to punch Lila. Elizabeth took her friend by the hand and gently guided her down the hall.
And then when they have the cake scene, that's when everybody's like, Hey, it's me, Aaron Dallas. And Winston says like, Hey Amy, aren't you going to say something? So, you know,
[01:07:22] Will: the cake, the cake scene was really special and that, that was.
Intentionally funny. And we were rallying around Lila being awful. I think we were allowed to laugh at the idea that that a cake is to be read. You know, a cake is not to be read, it is to be eaten, but then the idea of "will he even know there's a cake here?" Like we could tell him there's a pony. We could tell them there, you know, who is a, a popular football player at the time that he would look up to OJ Simpson.
We got OJ Simpson to come here and, you know, participate in your cake ceremony,
[01:08:00] Marissa: like OJ, say something, oh, he's
[01:08:03] Will: talking
[01:08:05] Marissa: awful. Um, but that does seem like Where Lila's head is, well tell me this, Will, having read this book, is there a character that you relate to in particular?
[01:08:18] Will: I feel like I shouldn't say Skip, but
[01:08:22] Marissa: Maybe Ron Jablonski?
[01:08:23] Will: Ron Jablonski gets totally shafted because we never know what he looks like. We never, I pictured that Ron Jablonski is just the generic name that all the workers at this facility get, because, you know, it's, everyone deserves a Ron Jablonski, to help their rehab process. But there's just not enough.
[01:08:47] Marissa: true. Um, there is a moment toward the very end of the book, like in the last chapter.
SIght
[01:08:54] Marissa: 'Did you hear that Ken's sight is starting to come back?" Patty asked absently
I didn't say that very absently, but,
"Uh, did you hear that Ken's sight has started to come back?" she asked absently.
"Yes. Isn't that great?" DeeDee answered. "Someone should make a movie out of his story. Maybe they could even film it at Sweet Valley High. We could all be extras. Wouldn't that be terrific."
So I think that in next week's extra drama episode, you and I should think about this movie.
[01:09:20] Will: Yeah, absolutely. And, and that's not the, the only time that, uh, like a movie is referenced because early on with skip, he looks at himself in the mirror as if he's looking into a movie camera.
So there is this idea that these kids are kind of self-absorbed and, and picture their lives as if they're interesting enough to be in movies. Yeah. But their proximity to Los Angeles can explain
away all that. It's true. What's true. And I mean, high school is kind of like that, right? Like you just think of yourself through that lens.
I certainly did.
I don't know if I did. Looking looking back. No, I don't know if anything that exciting happened that I've thought it should be.
[01:09:59] Marissa: Uh, I guess not, well, we can save all this for the, for the bonus episode in the meantime, gladiators. Thank you so much for listening. I'm so excited about next season, but we can get into all of that in the next episode.
Um, thank you for listening and for telling your friends and remember that you can email me at [email protected] or find me on Instagram at sweet valley diaries. The website is sweet valley diaries.net. Do you have anything you want to plug?
[01:10:24] Will: Well, no. Well, I mean, we have a movie that is theoretically coming out in the next calendar year.
If it happens to come to a film festival near you keep an eye out, it's called The Mirror Game and we're pretty excited
[01:10:36] Marissa: about it. Oh, The Mirror Game. Yeah. So surprise twist ending, Gladiators! Well, Teya was on. Earlier this season,
[01:10:45] Will: do we have a title for the movie at that point? We didn't keep an eye out. Marissa wrote it I directed it, Teya's in it. You better love it.
[01:10:52] Marissa: I mean, you better believe that I'm going to tell you more about it when it is coming to theaters near you. Should that happen or if it's on streaming at some point, which should also happen. All right, we'll see you next time. And, , I have, , some advice that I actually wrote down in advance this time,
The cake tastes just as good.
Even if you can't read it.
[01:11:12] Will: That's great. I, you can have a bumper sticker that says "honk if you love reading cakes,
[01:11:18] Marissa: I like that. I like that a lot.
We are recording. Okay. The pressure. No pressure. Okay. Welcome to sweet valley diaries, the podcast where it's just like, oh wait, no, that's not. I going to say, sorry. I usually, sometimes they say the podcasts and who knows, I don't this time. I don't want to say, oh, this will go at the end.
I always say gotta save. You gotta have a least one flub to put at the end. Yeah.
Posted at 08:00 AM in Amy Sutton, Cheerleaders, Danger, Ken Matthews, Minor Characters In the Spotlight, Podcast, Romances, Terrible Accidents | Permalink | Comments (0)
Todd is back, tell a friend
So, Liz and Todd are IN LOVE AGAIN, and all is right with the world...except for the fact that Todd goes to school an hour away with snobs, they're both too infatuated with one another to keep up with their commitments, and it's about to be Snobs vs Slobs (yes, somehow Sweet Valley is the slobs) in the big Battle of the Schools! Not to mention, Courtney Kane is back, and she's pissed! Author (and OG Gladiator!) Libbie Hawker helps walk us through this morass.
Gotta Grow Up Sometime podcast
More on Swans Crossing
IN BOYFRIEND MEMORIAM: Books #31-58
Shey Zanotti is back, and memories of (the very much still alive) Jeffrey French abound. Remember the time he scared away those thugs who wanted to steal Ronnie's car? Remember the time Elizabeth thought he was falling in love with Enid? Or perhaps the time she thought he had fallen in love with Olivia. So many memories! This, and some fresh new ideas for The Creek, in today's Extra Drama!
Media referenced in today's episode:
AUTO-GENERATED TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS:
Marissa and Shey
[00:00:00] Marissa: It's extra drama for book number 58 broken hearted. Hello, gladiators. Welcome back to sweet valley diaries. It's extra drama. And that means that we're going to talk additionally more about the book from last week, which in this case was broken hearted, the book where Elizabeth accidentally breaks Jeffrey French's heart.
And I'm joined once again by Shey Zanotti. Hi Shey.
[00:00:42] Shey: Hey,
[00:00:43] Marissa: last week we were talking about your interest in. Jeffrey French.
[00:00:48] Shey: my love for Jeffrey French.
[00:00:50] Marissa: Your love for Jeffrey French? Yeah. So I take it like you remember Jeffrey from like back in the day, reading these books.
[00:00:58] Shey: Oh, yeah. I had a stuffed animal when I was a kid named Jeffrey French. I think it was a white tiger or a snow leopard, but I love Jeffrey French that much. Like the cat's name wasn't just Jeffrey. It was Jeffrey French.
[00:01:14] Marissa: That is a lot of love. Like how old were you, do you think when you were reading the books?
[00:01:19] Shey: Eight or nine.
[00:01:21] Marissa: Wow. Not even 12 and up, this is what we're dealing with here, people.
Ha
[00:01:26] Shey: ha
[00:01:28] Marissa: ha...
12 and up is bad enough, but we've got eight and nine year olds. That's like me watching 90210 when I was way too young to be watching it. It was on, you know, I was curious,
you know
[00:01:39] Shey: know that I knew sweet valley twins existed.
[00:01:42] Marissa: Ahh, yeah, I, I don't remember the order for me, like, cause I had some sweet valley kids books, which are like even younger than sweet valley twins and I had sweet valley twins, but I don't really remember the order. I don't know if it was something I was accidentally buying from like the Scholastic book club, but these aren't Scholastic books.
So maybe those are, I'm not really sure, but somehow I got my hands on some of these books, but not the sweet valley high ones. Um, but I didn't know the difference until I was an adult apparently. Cause when I picked up that sweet valley high book, when I was like 21 and read it, I uh, was like, oh, this is different.
That's my story.
[00:02:24] Shey: I often read books. I shouldn't be reading when I was a child.
[00:02:28] Marissa: Ah, excellent. Well, do you remember reading the Jeffrey French books? Like, do you remember your experience of him as Elizabeth?
[00:02:36] Shey: Yeah. I remember him showing up and all the girls fighting over him.
[00:02:41] Marissa: Yes, that's a perfect reminiscence. You know, if we're going to dedicate this to the memory of Jeffrey French as Elizabeth Wakefield's boyfriend, that is perfect. So he shows up in like book 31 is the book that you are referencing, which is called, Taking Sides. And in taking sides, Laila, Fowler, and Enid, uh, Rollins are both really into Jeffery and each twin has like a dog in the fight.
You know, they're trying to get their girl in with Jeffrey. And it becomes clear by the end of the book that Jeffrey French has only interested in Elizabeth. And, uh, she realizes she's kind of into him too, and she feels pretty bad about it. It's not that Enid is so into Jeffrey, like Elizabeth has really been doubling down and kind of like forcing Enid to pursue him even after unit is like, I don't really think he's into me, Liz. Okay.
[00:03:37] Shey: Perfect teen movie set up. It's perfect. That he's really in love with Elizabeth.
[00:03:44] Marissa: It's very romantic when he reveals it to her. And I guess in a way it kind of puts the whole thing into a little bit of question it's like, is Elizabeth just going along with it? But she seems like deep in her heart. Like the reason she was really pushing for Enid to be with Jeffrey was like Elizabeth was seeing all of Jeffrey's great traits.
So she was, it was easy for her to enumerate them to Enid. Um, Jeffrey was, he was a photographer. I don't know why I'm like eulogizing him. He's still around, but like that they, that he's, he took pictures for the paper. And so they spent a lot of time together on the Oracle, which is something that. Todd never really showed much interest in the work.
Maybe he will now. Probably not because he doesn't go to sweet valley high, but do you remember the one where Aaron Dallas is like, keeps on getting into fights?
[00:04:36] Shey: I remember Aaron being Jeffrey's like best friend. They did soccer together and all of that.
[00:04:44] Marissa: Well, so Jeffrey was from Oregon and like they met at soccer camp. So like Aaron, Dallas is the one person that Jeffrey already knows before he gets to the school. But I'm just kind of trying to think of like highlights in Jeffrey's tenure as Elizabeth's boyfriend. And one of them is in, uh, the book.
Out of control. When Aaron is getting into a lot of fights and Jeffery is having to like intervene and they even get into a pretty big fight
[00:05:12] Shey:
he's
such a good guy. I also like, like, he refuses to be called Jeff.
only Jeffrey
[00:05:20] Marissa: oh, that comes up at the book where, uh, it's another soccer book, which is the one where it was actually the first book of this season where, um, Ronnie Edwards is like getting involved in betting on soccer games. And, uh, Ronnie keeps on trying to call Jeffrey "Jeff," and Jeffrey finally, like it explodes over it.
"Buddy. We're not friends like that! And if we were, you would know that I don't like to be called Jeff. Um, before that there was the one where Elizabeth was going to maybe move away. She was going to go to school in Switzerland. Cause he's books are frigging obsessed with Switzerland and, uh, Jeffrey and Enid, like work together on some kind of like going away present.
And I think Elizabeth briefly thinks that they are falling in love. Like she's going to leave town and like before she's even gone, like before her bed even grows cold, uh,
[00:06:19] Shey: Okay.
[00:06:20] Marissa: Enid has already swooped in to, uh, to take Jeffrey from her. But that was all in Elizabeth Head, man. Gee, maybe Elizabeth isn't the most rational girlfriend in the world.
[00:06:34] Shey: Maybe, maybe, I mean, Jeffrey Jeffrey will live on past this book, but you know, I don't want to give spoilers on that.
[00:06:45] Marissa: Oh, well, I mean, before we get to the future of Jeffery, how could we forget the time when Amy Sutton brought the slam book to sweet valley high and Lila Fowler, going back to her original interest in Jeffrey, makes up a story about Jeffrey and, oh, it was like Olivia, I think, uh, how that they were like falling for each other and Elizabeth dismisses it at first, but then she hears the story about them, like kissing in a car or something.
It's not true, but she is sure that Jeffrey is cheating on her with Olivia.
[00:07:25] Shey: Oh, who, you know?
[00:07:30] Marissa: Yeah. So what's next for Jeffrey? I mean, we don't want any spoilers, but you're telling me he's still going to be in the books.
[00:07:38] Shey: Yeah. I think it takes a while. Like they just kind of ignore him.
[00:07:44] Marissa: Yeah. That makes sense.
[00:07:46] Shey: and then he, yeah, he
[00:07:47] Marissa: That sounds like these books.
[00:07:49] Shey: He gets his groove back on a little bit. Like you don't never hear about him again.
[00:07:54] Marissa: Well, that's good. But when I say that sounds like these books it's like recently, like the very last book was about Olivia Davidson and in that book it would have been easy to kind of bring up what happened with Olivia and her old boyfriend, Roger, in this book, because it would have been an easy commentary to make on Elizabeth's relationship with Todd.
Like, is that going to be a strain? And maybe it'll come up in the next book. I'm curious to see if they remember to be like, yeah, the teens of Sweet Valley have been here before. Sometimes all of a sudden one party in a relationship having a bunch more money is complicated. Uh, but they didn't do it this time.
They didn't talk about the mini- courses that were so important to the book last week. Didn't talk about them at all. Uh, instead we've got new schools. I'm excited to spend more time at Lovett Academy.
[00:08:50] Shey: Yeah. I mean, it's a weird B plot. Like, and then there's Lovett Academy.
[00:08:55] Marissa: I wonder if at some point, uh, Todd is going to return to Sweet Valley High.
[00:09:01] Shey: I think he does.
[00:09:02] Marissa: seems like a pain in the ass to have him be a Lovett Academy all the time.
[00:09:07] Shey: I mean, it's a long
[00:09:09] Marissa: It's a commute! Can we talk about that? They explicitly say that it's a 40 minute commute. That's a long time to drive to school every day
[00:09:16] Shey: Yeah, but if it's outside of LA that's like five miles.
[00:09:19] Marissa: Yeah, I guess you're right. Like, well, like if you watch an older movie, I think that even in, is it Clueless where Cher says that it takes 20 minutes to get everywhere in LA?
LA
And now, now that is 40, think, is the rule of thumb. Takes 40 minutes to get everywhere. Um, but this was a 1989. This is pre-Clueless.
[00:09:43] Shey: but that's the same, like it's not that different than like Gilmore Girls. Rory's going half an hour
each way to go to school.
[00:09:52] Marissa: And she never switched back to public school. Hugh Grayson, by the way, who goes to a different high school, that's Enid's boyfriend. We haven't heard much about him in many, many books, but he was present for this book. Um, he didn't have any lines or anything. We didn't lay eyes on him, but he was around, he goes, I think he goes to Big Mesa.
[00:10:15] Shey: Oh, that sounds familiar.
[00:10:17] Marissa: So Gladiators, if anybody has not listened to the full back catalog of Sweet Valley Diaries episodes, this episode was a quick primer, a little catch-up on the, on some of the things that have gone down in the past 20 to 30 books, as we were saying in the previous episode, Elizabeth, just like in pure book timeline form, has been with Jeffrey for a few more books than she was with Todd.
[00:10:39] Shey: Because he's better than Todd.
[00:10:42] Marissa: Well, it does make you wonder, right? Like what was the, like, I would love to know editorially, like what was the thought process behind sending Todd away, behind creating Jeffrey? Because sure. Jeffrey's great and everything, but Jeffrey is a bit of a cipher by which, I mean, he doesn't have a very strong personality. Um, other than just like being a good kind of go along, get along kind of guy. He has a couple moments where he's like very tall and that's his personality, but like he's slightly imposing. Like he doesn't take any guff. Like he has some moments like that. Oh, we didn't even talk about the book about Shelley Novak, where she's the basketball player and Jeffrey wants to enter this photography contest that the paper is having, the Sweet Valley News, and a better photographer enters the contest.
And Jeffrey's just like, oh, that guy's way better than me. Yeah, no question. He should definitely win. Cause he's, he's such a good guy, but he's a little bit, I mean, he's a little bit. Bland. One thing that I loved about Todd that I hope will return was that Todd often like flat out, told Elizabeth how much Jessica sucked and, and kind and he, and like even kind of use the H word with Jessica like that.
He "hated" her
[00:12:06] Shey: I thought you meant "ho." I was like, whoa, I don't remember Todd getting like.
[00:12:15] Marissa: No, no actual slurs against Jessica. Um, yeah, I think characters have referred to Jessica as a real witch, uh, sometimes, but that's, as far as we've gone in terms of any slurs against her, but, uh, Uh, Jeffrey, you know, he didn't love Jessica, but Jessica, I dunno. They just didn't have much interaction.
They were just sort of like both. They would be there. I didn't have any strong feelings one way or the other. And in this book though, Jessica gives Todd a big hug and he like swings her around in the air. It's like they have a really happy reunion. So
[00:12:57] Shey: Okay. I mean, I think Todd's just excited that anyone looks like Elizabeth, so he's like, Hey.
[00:13:04] Marissa: well, early on in the book, there's this moment where Jessica, like right at the start, she's talking to Elizabeth about how Todd is coming home. And she looks at herself in the mirror and she's just like, how could he not want to be with anyone who looks like this? And she's talking about herself.
And like, so, you know, obliquely, referring to the fact that Elizabeth looks exactly like her.
But am I, sorry, I got worried at that point that maybe this was going to be one of those books where Elizabeth, was choosing Jeffrey, but Jessica tricks Todd, into thinking that she's Elizabeth, like, I dunno, that would have been maybe more interesting than what actually happens in the book, but they can only do that shit so many times, I guess. But I do wonder, like, what was, if there was reader feedback that made the creators of the series ultimately choose to bring Jeffrey back or is it just like, you know, on a sitcom when you're really rooting for a couple and then they get together or any kind of TV show and then it's like, okay, well now they're together now.
What is this show
[00:14:14] Shey: Right.
[00:14:15] Marissa: like Nick and Jess on The New Girl is what comes to mind. Or I don't know, Dawson and Pacey. Sorry. I mean, Dawson and Joey.
[00:14:29] Shey: I was like, wow, I don't remember that
[00:14:32] Marissa: that was perfect Freudian slip on my part because there's nothing that, I mean, I didn't even realize this about myself, but there's nothing I would have loved more than to see Dawson and Pacey finally fall in love. I meant Dawson and Joey, but I think we all know what I really meant. And it was what I said. It's just, wasn't a good example of the, of the thing I was trying to describe because the show didn't go there. Do you have any of those you can think of where like two characters get together and the show has to break them up because it's boring for them to just be together.
[00:15:07] Shey: No, cause, I mean, you have to like, that's every television show. There has to be that strife. There has to be like, Jessica always has some new object of her affection. So you can't, I guess keep Elizabeth static the whole time and not have her relationships evolving at all. So I, I get why they brought Todd back.
[00:15:33] Marissa: Well, that's interesting that you should mention that because that's basically Jessica's issue with any time, whether it's Todd or Jeffrey at a certain point, Jessica is like, this is so boring. Elizabeth. You're always with the same guy. well, I have, uh, gone on the record as saying about myself that I have, a syndrome.
I believe I named a FRCLS, which let's see if I can remember what that stands for. Um, first... relationship... Nope. Gladiators that are in what freckle stands for, but it was a whole, it was the whole concept that I came up with many moons ago, which was just like, I have this tendency to be really all in for whoever. First Romantic Coupling Loyalty Syndrome, that's what it stands for. So whatever is presented to me as like, this is the relationship that you're supposed to ship.
This is like the Sam and Diane of this program or book or whatever. I'm like all in for that. And will accept no substitutes, much to my dismay. Do you, by any chance, see a pattern in yourself of. Like second relationships, or like later on when a program does that, is, are you ready to get on board with like the new guy?
[00:16:54] Shey: I can't think of anything
[00:16:56] Marissa: Like, I don't know. Did you watch 90210?
[00:16:59] Shey: I was a David Silver fan the beginning beginning. So, I mean, I definitely always thought it should be Brenda and Dylan. I did not like the Kelly plot line.
[00:17:13] Marissa: That's what I was going to bring up. If you were a Kelly and Dylan, maybe we would have, we would have legs for this one,
but, um,
[00:17:20] Shey: at all.
[00:17:21] Marissa: Uh, all right, well, I'm with ya. I'm with you on Brenda and Dylan. I was right there, like 10 years old, however old I was, I was like, "is she going to sleep with him after the prom?"
You know, like I wanted to know, let me tell you, like, I wanted to know a lot. Uh, so I think I recorded that on VHS and like went and washed it in the attic. Cause like, I didn't want my parents to like, see, it was like it was porn or something. And let me tell ya, nothing. I mean, it was on fox on like regular prime time.
Like nothing particularly lurid happened, but
[00:17:52] Shey: No, I feel it was like, here's a room key and then it was over.
[00:17:59] Marissa: I don't even remember if they did it. I think they did because then there was some kind of pregnancy scare and that ended up being what it was really about. And I was like, oh man, no fair.
[00:18:09] Shey: Hey, they had to teach us our lesson somehow,
[00:18:12] Marissa: Okay. Yeah. Yep. They sure did. And so do these books and the lesson we learned this week was, sometimes you just got to go back with your old boyfriend. Sorry.
[00:18:23] Shey: even though you have the best man in the world already.
[00:18:27] Marissa: He's really proven himself. I have to, I have to agree with you. That he has proven himself. And I, and I guess I'll say that I had a little bit of a change of heart around the topic of Todd when the whole Devlin thing happened a little bit. Cause like, come on. I don't care how much Suzanne Devlin has changed.
Like you don't really know this woman. And one of the main things you know about her is that she's just, like, pure evil. Like, so how much do you have to change? I don't know. It was complicated, but it seemed like it was a bad look for Todd for that to be the girl he fell for.
[00:19:06] Shey: Yes,
[00:19:07] Marissa: Yeah. So, well, Shey, this has been delightful.
Um, Gladiators. I hope you enjoyed this trip down Jeffrey French memory lane with a detours into 90210 and Dawson's Creek. Why not?
[00:19:21] Shey: always, I am always and will forever be the president of the Jeffrey French fanclub.
[00:19:28] Marissa: Aw. Well, um, I appreciate you joining me today and last week in that capacity, and I'm sure the Gladiators feel the same way. Um, thanks so much Gladiators. Remember that you can subscribe to the podcast, wherever podcasts are found. Like obviously you probably did that already, but also tell a friend about the show.
Uh, you could send me an email at [email protected]. Did you love Jeffrey French? Uh, do you remember Jeffrey French, the context around which, you know, when you first knew that you were a Jeffery French girl? Do you have Second Romantic Coupling Loyalty Syndrome or are you like me, uh, sort of blindly devoted to whoever the creators of a project trot out first for you, or maybe also like me, you're hashtag Dawson and Pacey all the way.
Um,
[00:20:18] Shey: Yes, long live Dawson and Pacey
[00:20:21] Marissa: Yeah, let's bring back that series so that we can make that happen. That would be fun for me to watch, um, and many, uh, uh, many of us I'm sure. Tune in next week to see what's up. Do you think maybe Liz and Todd are going to have some troubles around Todd's newfound wealth? Ah, probably not.
It's probably fine. These two never have a misunderstanding or anything. It's cool. Thanks Shey.
[00:20:47] Shey: Thanks Marissa.
[00:20:48] Marissa: Bye.
{closing theme}
[00:20:50] Marissa: That's going to be like one of the more like useful and informative episodes of the show. I think it's actually about something.
I had to do some research to make it, to make it happen.
[00:21:14] Shey: Awesome. It was a good, it did it hurt me to read it. I was like, oh no, I think I know what's going to happen, but oh,
[00:21:21] Marissa: Oh, yeah. I don't know. There was still a moment in the end when it was like, it's almost like the writers were like, should we have her choose Jeffrey? Uh, we can't. That was beside the whole point of bringing Todd back.
Posted at 09:54 AM in Aaron Dallas, Amy Sutton, B-Stories, Breakups, Elizabeth, Enid Rollins, Jeffrey French, Lila Fowler, Olivia Davidson, Podcast, Romances, Television | Permalink | Comments (0)
Tales of the “comfortably well-off”
#1 Jeffrey French fan Shey Zanotti is back, and she's not the only one! Remember Todd Wilkins, Elizabeth's first love, who moved away to Vermont...at some point earlier in junior year? Can you believe that was 35 books ago? Now the Wilkinses are returning, and richer than ever. So what does that mean for Liz and her new longtime beau (yes, it's still junior year, but don't get hung up on that) Jeffrey? Well, the title of the book may give us a clue...
Baby-Sitters Club Club/Sweet Sweet Valley Guys #10
Shey's previous appearance, FAMILY SECRETS
SPECIAL CHRISTMAS with Dad
Transcript is automatically generated and particularly egregious this week. Hoping to fix this soon.
Book #58: BROKENHEARTED
Welcome to sweet valley diaries, the podcast where the rich get richer and the prettiest girls get to have two boyfriends.
number 58
broken hearted,
who is Elisabeth's true. Love.
Oh, hello, gladiators.
Welcome too. Sweet valley diaries. I'm your host Marissa Flaxbart. And I am joined once again by Shey Zanotti. Hello, Shey.
Hey Marissa.
Uh, so Shey, you were a guest on sweet valley diaries once before, way back when, uh, family secrets, I believe were Kelly Bates was in town having a rough time.
Yes. The identical cousins.
Yes. And when you were a guest on that episode, there were some
people who wrote to me that were really excited that I had found another guest that was knowledgeable in the ways of sweet valley high. Uh, so I was really thrilled to have you
to ask you to be back again, to talk today about book number 58 broken hearted.
And I hope it wasn't too painful for you. I hope you are not broken hearted after having read this book a little.
It's an upsetting book.
Well, we will dig right into it. I, um, as I was telling
Shey, before we got started gladiators, one of the reasons why I thought this would be a good opportunity to have her back, uh, if she was willing, which thank you Shea, for being willing was that I know you are a big fan of Mr.
Jeffrey, French and
everything about like the cover of this book. And the tease for the previous book is pointing to maybe like final, final moments for Jeffrey in terms of being Elizabeth's boyfriend. So I thought your presence could be a strong counterpoint to my typically vociferous, uh, pro Todd perspective, which, you know, we'll get into, but it's,
I think it might actually make so much sense to talk a little bit about the cover of the book right
off the.
It's given me a first of all, I just have to get this out of the way they're giving me real children of the
corn vibes. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I thought that too. I'm like, oh, this is a lot of blondness so
blonde and I don't even have like a particularly faded copy of the book. Sometimes they fade to an even paler
blonder, a look than they usually have.
But boy, Jeffrey has never looked so much
like, um, Hitler youth. I mean, I'm sorry to project that onto blonde people everywhere, but
it's almost. Like flowers in the attic.
Well, so he looks pretty sad. He also looks kind of like he is staring into empty space as if he has lost his, uh, his vision, but that is not a part of the book gladiators that's. I mean, we wouldn't put it past a sweet valley high, in fact, like buckle up for a few books from now, uh,
spoiler alert. Um, but
also we have this shirt that he's wearing, which I mean, that, that, that pushes us straight back into the eighties.
I guess if we were thinking that maybe this was from a different era, uh, never. Can we describe the shirt
the Jeffrey's wearing? I mean, it's.
Blue
hype. He's got a blue and green vertical stripes on like a button down shirt, but the shades of blue and green are very close to each other. Um, I think
Elizabeth looks probably to represent her eyes. Uh, yeah. Yes. And we'll
answer, you know, what the shirt, the light blue, green of her eyes. Yeah, sure.
The aquamarine together. And it really is. Elizabeth looks stunning on this cover. She's really, she's got that sad pathos look in her face, but boy, she looks, she's looking pretty.
Um, this book had a funny line that, um, I thought would be useful to us for future covers. If we're sometimes on these books, that can be a little bit challenging to figure out which one of the twins is a witch on a cover that has both of them on it. And so I thought there was like a handy little guide very early on in this book where it said
the twin and the wild zebra striped miniskirt had to be Jessica while the twin in conservative khakis and a comfortable short sleeve cotton shirt was
Marker
bound to be Elizabeth.
And that's not describing a literal thing that happens. That's just like Jessica thinking about how, like what's a good rule of thumb to be able
to tell the difference
between the two of them. But it sounds
like Elizabeth works at target.
Yes.
Khakis and just look at, come a sensible shirt. And she she's wearing like a, like a button
down, like sham Bray kind of.
Shirt in this cover and has her nails noticeably unpainted. So anyway, should they both look very sad on the cover of a book called broken hearted, Jeffrey and Elizabeth? Yes, but I mean, they
look,
look a couple who's lost their child tragically
or something. Yeah. Yeah. Like I having not read this book before, pardon me was like, is Jeffrey going, gonna die?
Like, is Jeffery going to move away? Like, how is this
being handled? Like what's going on here? And
the
cover of the book certainly leads us to wonder, um, although this subtitle who was Elisabeth's true, love doesn't point to any other like greater intrigue. Certainly at the end of last week, we had this big tease turns out Todd Wilkins is moving back to sweet valley.
Don't don't done so gladiators. If you didn't listen to last week's episode for some reason now, you know, uh, that's that's what this one's about. Um, Hm. Well, you know, the look of the subtitle of the book poses, this question who was Elisabeth's true. Love, how would we say Elizabeth is handling this dilemma at the outset of the book
poorly?
She's having a nervous breakdown from maybe the third
page. Yeah. The book describes her as being sort of like overcome with anxiety in a way that
I have to admit, I found very relatable. Like she just couldn't stop
thinking about this dilemma throughout the book. She's like making lists in her head, you know, Todd or Jeffrey Todd or Jeffrey.
Great.
She makes it a dilemma before anything has happened. Right?
Well, at the beginning of the book we learn and I would, if, gosh, if I were Elizabeth, this would be troubling to me too. We learn that Todd has not contacted Elizabeth at all to say that he's moving home. So she starts finding out that like some of his buddies have gotten letters from him and phone calls and.
Uh, Elizabeth hasn't heard anything from him about his return. So she's kinda like who knows if, what his deal even is, maybe he's dating someone. Maybe he decided he hates. Well, she's still, he comes home who I choose.
I'm like, no, one's giving you a choice. The man hasn't contacted you. He has not talked to you also.
What are you expecting from a 16 year old boy? Like how many handwritten letters do you want from a 16 year old boy?
She's definitely starting from this position of you think that the, like the sensible, like the most sensible version of Elizabeth starts out this whole dilemma by thinking, you know what, there's not a problem until there's a problem.
So Jeffrey's my boyfriend. I'm just not going to think about Todd when he shows up. If there's something we'll cross that bridge when it come to it. But that is just not where she's at. Um, here is where she's at. I can read a little passage here. Um, this is Jessica walking into Elizabeth's room at the beginning of the book, and basically just stating the problem outright.
Marker
You're not exactly jumping up and down about the prospect of Todd moving back. She observed. Don't you want to see him again? Of course, I do a little bit tugged at the window shade and it sprang up with a snap, but it's not just a question of seeing him again. He's moving back for good. I just don't know what's going to happen.
Oh, you mean because of Jeffrey, they'll have to fight for you. I guess like in the old days, a duel,
the idea clearly appealed to Jessica. She giggled
picture Todd and Jeffrey going at it with French fries and the dairy burger.
So Jessica's no help. She's excited about how Elizabeth is going to have be the one that has the dramatic storyline in this one for once.
It's so romantic being fought over with French fry. swords, yeah.
Well, and one other thing that's brought up early on in this book that I don't know if you caught this, but I was really curious if the authors were even going to broach the subject or if they were just going to pretend like it had never happened, but so.
Well, Todd Wilkins gladiators. If you haven't listened to the podcast from the beginning, if you're not really well versed in the world of sweet valley high. As a whole, you may not know anything about Todd Wilkins because he actually hasn't been a part of the books for awhile. Now, Todd Wilkins moved away.
I was actually surprised to see this. He moved away way back and book 23
say goodbyes when he moved away.
And then there was the special edition book called special Christmas, where he comes back to town for a little while. And Suzanne Devlin, who is from New York and had previously been a real thorn in
everyone's size.
Uh, in fact, she's the one that like almost got Mr. Collins fired because she made up a story about him coming on to her. She has reformed and Todd falls in love with her in the special edition books, special Christmas. And they like, she gets motto, but they kiss. I don't know. It's all soul drama. Listen to that one.
If you have a very special Christmas. Listen to that one. If you want to hear my dad say special Christmas, a bunch of times, he thought it was a really
ridiculous title and it is, but this book takes that information head on. Did you catch that? Did you notice it in passing Shea?
Oh yeah, they bring it up.
It's
it's so
ludicrous one that he falls in love over Christmas
vacation with a girl
that does not live in the same state as him. So, because she's from New York, he's in Vermont, they're both in California. She's
living
with the Wakefields for the holidays. Like Y Y I don't also, I have a hard time with things like the Christmas special additions and the like summer and holidays, because.
Then I lose my place. Absolutely. Well,
Christmas, they only wrote the one Christmas one so far. I mean, later on, there'll be more Christmas books famously, but so far in the special additions, they focused more on summer and a little bit on spring break, but it is, Christmas is a little bit of a problem in this kind of ambiguous timeline.
And I think it's significant that something that ha an event that happened in the, in a special edition book is now coming back, like is known. So we know that we're like
post-Christmas in the world of the books. I mean,
it's impossible. And it will drive you crazy to try and impose a timeline, uh, onto these
books.
It does in some way, because now it's perpetually junior year, but now you've told me this is somewhere between
January and June. Yeah. Like it's absolutely.
It's gotta be in that timeline now. So now I'm like, wait, so she's been with Jeffrey for how long then? And it becomes, you know,
you weren't really
with Todd for that long then, and now you're with Jeffrey.
It's been much longer. I mean, even if we're going to grant the impossibility, like the impossibility of the timeline, and we're just measuring based on books, book 23 that's. So that's the Todd and Elizabeth get together and book one or two. Uh, the first book is about Todd having a crush on Elizabeth and Jessica kind of messing it up.
Right. Then he leaves in book 23 and now it's book 58. Now Jeffrey didn't get onto the scene immediately. Jeffrey joined the party at about book 30, 31, but that's still more than 23 books worth of relationships. So, you know, crunch the numbers there she's been with
Jeffrey longer than she was with that.
Yeah. Well, especially if we know then because they were together sometime in the fall of junior year and he left. Sometime in the fall of like, they were together for like a month at Christmas, right.
Her first
love he was talking, he describes him in this book, her first
love. Um, and she's clearly that haunts her somewhat too.
But I guess we should say in the interest
of moving forward through
the plot
of this book, which we probably could get
through pretty quickly, but we might as well go through the twists and turns. Cause that's what sweet valley diaries is all about. Eventually she does get a letter from Todd and she sees based on the postmark that it's been it's like gone everywhere.
Like he basically got lost in the mail and he sent it. The postmark is from like three weeks ago. It's like
pandemic level math.
And I don't know, global listeners if this happened where you live, but here in the states, we had
some issues with the mail during the
pandemic. Not, not totally cleared up, but a little better now, but oh my gosh.
Trying to send something for a while. It was like really up in there. Anyway, the the message is like, it's all about, I mean, it's this heartfelt letter from Todd and it says, oh my gosh, if she'd actually gotten this letter, she really would have been under
anxiety for a longer time because it spells
out like, I'm not seeing anybody.
I know that you are all, but I still have feelings for you. I can't wait to see you I'll be home on Sunday, the 15th or whatever it says, I might've made that up. And she's the
first person he wrote it. It is kind of heartbreaking because then you know, this poor teenage boy who has put something on the line has been sitting there packing up, going.
Wow, Elizabeth hasn't called me or written to me, I guess. She, uh,
and so that is actually a really interesting glimpse into Todd's mindset. So that's one boy then of course, the other boy is Jeffrey and this book also offers an interesting glimpse into his mindset because Jeffrey, it sounds like, has heard a lot about Todd and it's all been like, oh, Todd's the
coolest dude.
He was a basketball star, everybody.
He's so great. He's our buddy. He moved away. So Todd is disliked big man on campus. Hasn't heard that much from Elizabeth about what their relationship was like, but just sort of knows the
only other guy my girlfriend has dated is this amazing guy named Todd. And now he's moving back to town.
I mean, Jeffrey Jeffrey French is the best of us out before the book is through.
But so here's the, here's the glimpse from of Jeffery's perspective on Todd before Todd returns. Elizabeth has just kind of told Jeffrey that Todd is coming back and Elizabeth, I guess to her credit, rather than just being like Jeffrey, I know you must be worried about Todd, but you shouldn't worry about him.
I love you. The most
Elizabeth is like really carefully not saying that because she doesn't know how she feels like she's also not telling Jeffrey that, but she's just like, I can't lie to him. So instead I just will say nothing. Yeah. I don't know. It's it's morally gray, uh,
her decision, but, okay. So here's, Jeffrey's uh, POV.
What sort of threat was Todd Wilkins? When Jeffrey first started seeing Elizabeth, he knew there had been a serious romance in her past, but Jeffrey had never felt Todd's memory come between. Until now, and now it wasn't just Todd's memory. That was troublesome. It was taught himself who would be back in town any day.
And not only that, but he had a new and improved image. Apparently he used to be a nice ordinary guy, a regular sweet valley, high junior. Sure. He was a basketball star and all that, but he wasn't Superman. Now though, Todd's dad had become a corporate president and Todd would have an affluent lifestyle that impressed even Lila Fowler.
So how about that? Shall we get into that business. I mean, I do want to talk
about Todd being a basketball star because. One again, timeline. Their whole relationship happens in the fall of junior year. He was just really great on the JV team in the sophomore year. Was he a basketball star as a freshman, as a sophomore?
Like what, what has he done for sweet valley high? Cause it's not basketball. Maybe he's been an ACE on that team since sixth grade. You know, he's always been basketball, man. He had an early girl sport.
I don't know. We're just making up Todd stories now, but Todd's dad has become the president of something called.
I want to say vivid, tronics,
something like that, something wonderful. Yeah. And Todd
is moving into like, so he's moving into a house on the same street as Fowler crest, and he's not going to go to
sweet valley high. He's going to go to a school. Who's the name of which I didn't really fully appreciate it until I said
it out loud a little bit before we started recording.
Love it. Academy, L O V E T T. Love it. I dunno Todd's is like big shot. I mean, that seems like it has red flags of its own because look, we already have had characters, like when Roger Barrett became Roger Patman, he put a lot of strain on his relationship with Olivia Davidson, which these, this book doesn't mention that at all.
Like, nobody's
really that worried
about if, if Elizabeth and Todd's relationship is going to be strained in the future because of, I mean, that might be fodder for the next books. We'll see, but not to get ahead of ourselves. Oh. Um, but Todd, going to love at academy is especially interesting to Jessica
who is looking for a husband at 16
years old seems like inappropriate part of the podcast to talk about boys.
Here's something
that, uh, Jessica thinks I've got a few little passages here about this.
If Elizabeth got back together with Todd, she would probably start spending some time with him. At Lovett. And Jessica would join them. She had absolutely no qualms about playing the part of the third wheel after all.
She would only tag along enough to find a fourth wheel, her very own. Lovett man.
And then, um, it goes on, she's a ogling at a couple of sweet valley boys. Excuse me, you two. Jessica walked away from Aaron and Ken, flashing them both a big smile. They were both very attractive. She had dated each of them a number of times.
In fact, not too long ago, she had contemplated falling in love with Ken, for lack of anything better to do,
which by the way, this book hasn't forgotten
the events of, uh, lost at sea. But apparently the book right after loss of see, forgot what happened. The lost at sea granted, they're not talking about
Jessica getting lost at sea, but anyway, Continuing on, uh, the romantic possibilities at sweet valley high were really wearing thin, but now a whole new world was about to open up before her Jessica was convinced she was going to have access to a whole new student body or bodies. She
thought giggling.
Oh, Jessica, I just it's wearing thin because you've dated all sweet valley high. Yeah. She didn't even make it happen with Ken. Again, she just like had a flirtatious
conversation with him where they reminisced about how they dated once before the books even started. So she was just impatient. She's really excited about these.
Lovett boys
their student bodies,
her up for life. Like throughout this book, it's continually about Jessica checking these men out and going, I feel like a politician's wife or, oh yes. This is what these people do and how the other half lives and oh, the BMW. Oh, the Mercedes. Oh yeah. But, and they talk about, there's something that some phrase oh, Elizabeth says something about the Wilkins were comfortably well off, just like the Wakefields
before I noticed that too comfortably well off is how they were like
Jesus Christ.
Oh no, you're rich. You're
comfortably, right? Comfortably. Well off is code for upper-middle-class. So now Todd's going from being upper middle class to being just upper upper class. And so Todd shows up, he comes
home and he
calls Elizabeth from the airport on a payphone and is like, I'm going to drop my stuff off at the house.
And then I'm coming straight over to you. And he shows up in a
shiny black BMW. So whatever his old Datsun, he sold once upon a time. And
now he's got a
shiny black BMW is moving up in the world, just waiting at the
house for him. I would've thought it was a rental car or something, except,
uh, he continues to drive it through.
He's so thirsty
because this girl has not
responded to him for three weeks
and he's still calling her from lax
being like, Hey, I had to put money into this telephone because it's the eighties so that I can talk to you. And I'm going to come over, even though I know you have a boyfriend
yeah.
And I mean, it's awkward for Elizabeth with
Jeffrey. There's a lot of like, oh, it would be so natural to just kiss Todd right now, but I can't kiss him because he's not my boyfriend, you know? And then it seems like at a certain point, she's kind of doubling down on spending time with Jeffrey too.
Like if, if I just spend more time with Jeffrey, then that will make it clear to me that he's the one. It's my boyfriend, like, I'll forget, I'll stop thinking about Todd, but this is where Jessica is scheming around. Love it kind of factors in because, uh, oh, so Winston Egbert has a party at his house where, uh, it's basically like in Todd's honor, like, Hey, welcome back, Todd.
And everybody comes and that's where Jeffrey and Todd meet each other for the first time. Also, why is Winston
having a party?
How is
all the sweet valley high suddenly showing up for Winston's
party? God, but like, you know, it's interesting, you mentioned that because I don't know if this will have come across in the podcast, but there's this like undercurrent that has popped up throughout this series, but never really gotten its own kind of.
Storyline that it seems like Winston and Todd or, and they're like, parents are really good friends. Winston's mom was like one of the first people that found out that the Wilkins is we're moving home. When Todd comes back to town briefly, and it, for a couple of books, he stays at the Egbert's house. So even though Todd and Winston don't seem like they're best buddies or anything, there's definitely some kind of like lower that is baked into these books about the egg Burts and the Wilkins is.
Curiously. I still don't
see all sweet valley high showing it, but Winston Egbert's house, I guess it's only because of time. Yeah, I think it might be, but I don't know. Winston is sort of like low key popularity in his way.
I mean, it's not literally popular, but it's like his class
clown status gets him in with all the, uh, all the cool kids.
Plus there was the being lost at sea, so
right.
That'll, that'll really bump you up in the, uh, in the local, like
celebrity moment of the high school. So I would say that Todd and Jeffrey, like meeting at this party, it's like awkward, but it's not openly antagonistic. I think what I love about
that moment is Jessica forces it to happen.
She just. This is how she's trying to help her sister. She's like here, I'm going to bring Todd over. Look at them, both
Liz look like it's, she's trying
to under like, yeah, the book literally says, if she sees him standing next to each other, it'll be easier for her to make a decision, which says a lot about Jessica's, uh, standards like her rubric for how she's judging men is purely based on like, let's have a lineup and we'll pick them.
We'll pick them that way, which is the served her so well. She's run out of men at sweet valley high
anyway, so now, so now she's getting onto to love at academy and she gets Todd to take them there one day, which I was like, what day is this? And why are they not at their own high school this day? But Todd takes them around at love at academy, which is in a nearby town called Cedar or something.
Yeah, it's called OHI. They go, hi. They go to a boarding
school in Ohio, right? Right. Well, it's coded. OHI is coded as Cedar something. Oh, I think maybe this is where Jessica wet with that boy that she was cheating on Aaron with, uh, into boy weekend.
Every weekend is boy weekend for Jessica.
Well, for Elizabeth too.
Apparently. So at this party, there are a few people around right. There is, um, somebody named Courtney Kane who. Todd has been spotted with at the, at the country club. His parents are a member of the members of the country club now, and that's slightly troubling, but, um, all the reports of this are kind of like through Alila Fowler.
So Elisabeth's trying not to give it too much credence. So Courtney Kane is there and there is a fellow named Sheffield, Eastman Sheffield, Eastman enters the scene. Thusly.
Todd, I see you brought Elizabeth, a deep male voice observed. Then the speaker chuckled, whoa, two Elizabeths! Jessica and Elizabeth both turned and looked right into the clear blue eyes of a boy who could have passed for a young Paul Newman.
Elizabeth felt Jessica elbow, her sharply in the ribs. Yep. This is Elizabeth Wakefield. Liz. Todd put an arm around her waist and Elizabeth suddenly felt relaxed and secure. It was reassuring to know. Todd had told at least one of his new friends about her, and this is Jessica Liz, his twin sister, Liz, Jess.
I'd like you to meet Sheffield Eastman. Sheffield shook their hands, dazzling them with a perfect smile. But despite his looks and the designer cut of his sports jacket, his manner, wasn't in the least snobby. I'm glad to meet you both. He said, so this is the guy that Jessica has got her sights set on now, Sheffield Eastman.
So
it's the eighties.
So are you're picturing his,
uh, his sports jacket and his like embroidered, like gold
I'm with the
Paul Newman. Like we're girls in the eighties, into Paul -- teenage girls into Paul Newman?, not, not Eric Stoltz, not Michael J. Fox, not Robert Downey Jr.
It's so funny that you should mention that because when I read
it and I saw that the authors had had the restraint to write a young Paul Newman, I was like,
oh good.
So you recognize that you are older than the girls, the audience that's reading this book and that it would, that those girls are not lusting after Paul Newman in 1989.
So
be something if Alice'd said it, if Alice was like, he reminds me of a young Paul Newman, I'd be like, okay, that's a mom thing. Right.
But instead we're like
in the, these teenagers heads, I mean, young Paul Newman can get it, but like. It is, it is kind of funny that that stood out to me as well, but I was, uh, ready to sort of be
like, okay, good job. At least you said a young Paul Newman book,
but I'm seeing here that Mr. Wilkins is now the president of Vera Atronix.
I don't know if that's what I said before, something, eighties and Tronic. Okay. I'll
listen back and
see if I said Vera tronics the first time. Um, so while they're at this party, so they're at this party, the Lovett academy is a school where some of the kids are boarders and some of the kids are commuters.
So like Todd and Sheffield, they're both commuters. It's so interesting. The way that this book bends over backwards to like justify the existence of a school like this and why Laila, Fowler and Bruce Patman don't go there even though they're so, so rich, but this is like maybe the second or third time we've gotten a glimpse into this other world beyond sweet valley where people are even richer than they are in sweet valley.
Uh, it's just like, whoa. One of those super, super rich people. Is this Courtney.
Character. I mean, Courtney cane. Yeah. Couldn't be more eighties or else like a Batman
villain. Definitely sounds like a Batman villain. Like I wonder what her alter ego she's like horse girl. Yeah. Yes.
That was the first thing that came to mind.
I don't know if there's a bad feature of the book. She just thunders around the boarding school on a horse. Right, right, right. There's a moment when
we are suddenly just like definitely the book starts a new chapter and shifts us right into Courtney Kane's POV in a way that only a sweet valley high novela can
all out of nowhere, this character that did not exist before this book
gets her own POV.
And we could see that she is up to no good. Um, but before we get there, Um, here is how Courtney's like very existence is already playing into the whole of the Beth Todd Jeffrey Love triangle. So as I mentioned, Todd and Courtney have been like going to the country club together a little bit, and Elizabeth has heard about it and Todd's like, listen, I, my, my parents kind of want us to hang out together because she's, uh, her, the daughter of somebody that's her dad is a chairman of the board for Vera tronics.
Okay.
Elizabeth paled slightly. So what you're saying is that you had to be Courtney's date because of your dad's new position, kind of like having to attend private school and playing tennis at the club. She added silence. Exactly. Todd appeared relieved that Elizabeth understood. It's all pretty dull Liz. This school, and that reception last night, believe me, I'd much rather be hanging out at the Dairi Burger. As they made their way to the refreshment table for a drink. Elizabeth wished she could believe Todd, but it didn't look dull to Elizabeth. Todd seemed to be enjoying himself, which was fine. Elizabeth decided friendly.
She was dating another boy and had absolutely no claim on Todd. And really, he must think she was naive if he expected her to believe that escorting rich, beautiful Courtney Kane was a chore to him. "Why doesn't Todd just come right out and say it?" Elizabeth thought accepting a glass of ice tea garnished with lemon.
He had only invited her to love it today because he felt it was the polite thing to do, but taking her and Jessica for a tour and letting them tag along at this party, that was the real chore.
So Elizabeth is like, I might as well face it. Todd's lost to me.
This is like halfway through the book. She's stumbling down on Jeffery based on just like things that she's making up.
She's doubling down on Jeffrey, who is her boyfriend and is upset even though in her head. She's like, how will I ever make a choice? No one has asked her on his ass for that Houser. At some
point, I don't remember if it's before or after this, like, I will wait for you. And Elizabeth is like, no, Todd, that's not fair.
And he's like, yeah, I don't care.
Whatever I do what I want. And I'm going to wait for you to not be dating Jeffrey anymore. Like, not just, I'll wait for
you to make a decision, but basically like, I'll wait for you to be free. So bizarre.
So crucially from a 16 year old hot
commodity, like Todd. Yeah. Yes. Yes.
As the book continues, we do get that POV from Courtney cane where she's
riding a horse called the moon's shadow at school. And the like school
stable master is like, you better be back in an hour. And she's like maybe,
and she rides a horse to go over to wherever Sheffield. Eastman is playing
tennis with his brother, whose name is Kent.
So
very rich white people in the 1980s at this point. Uh,
or maybe still today. I don't know, but here's something that Courtney thinks.
It was a beautiful sunny Monday and everything's going my way. Courtney thought smiling. She recalled a conversation with Lila Fowler at the country club on Friday.
Lila had been shameless. She might as well have taken notes, but after all, that was what Courtney wanted. She wanted Lila to absorb every word and then repeat them syllable for syllable. For Elizabeth Wakefield's benefit. Poor Lila. Courtney said out loud to MoonShadow ducking her head to avoid a low tree branch.
It really is too bad. Her father didn't send her to love it. She has everything in the world going for her, but she could use a little Polish.
This is Courtney talking to a horse about Lila. I just want to highlight that. Talking to a horse .
About Lila Fowler.
Just what are these grounds like? She takes off like, is she going through the woods to get to a tennis court?
Like, why is she avoiding tree branches? What is she
doing?
I just don't know. But I do know that she's scheming. Cause she goes
and tells Sheffield Eastman, um, that Jeffery has given. So she's taught like fully telling stories about kids from other schools that are somehow related to this other new kid.
They all just met. Right? So she's like Elizabeth Wakefield. Todd really seems hung up on her, but she has a boyfriend, Jeffrey, French, and Jeffrey just gave Elizabeth the ring. So it's practically like they're engaged. So she just makes this up wholesale and is like Sheffield. Don't tell anybody about that.
So she's like really scheming she's sure. Just like she was sure with YLS, she's sure that Sheffield is going to talk to Todd about it. Yeah. And he does. So she's a criminal mastermind. This girl,
she really is. She's conniving. She is a true eighties.
Soap, opera, drama villain. Yeah,
she, she is what were all those shit like knots
and, um, well, dynasty Falcon crest, not since I've been here in sweet valley, not since Annie Sue back in Kansas, have we gotten such a schemer and before her.
Suzanne Devlin. So we have a rich history of snobby, rich schemers. Um, but it's been a while. So I'm glad I was glad to see a new one back. Oh, wait. No, I forgot about the girl that Erin not Erin. Oh, I called him Erin earlier, too. AJJ Morgan. Oh, Jessica's old. Boyfriend's name is AGA Morgan. Not Eric did ha happened already.
Yep. And, uh, Hmm. I was also, there was the sexy girl that was trying to lure him away from Jessica when Jessica was being a real wet blanket. So I don't remember her name right now, but she was another, she was even, she was maybe of all of these people, the most like Courtney cane. Because she even went to like a snobby private school nearby and she was very voluptuous and a femme fatale type.
I love that. I love the AJL already happened.
Yep. Does that mean
Sam happened to already? Well, I don't know anything about Sam. Oh, exciting.
I love it when I don't and I fear about things I don't know about it yet. Um, okay. So keeping an eye out for Sam and, uh, yeah, so it's basically like Jessica is going on dates, which I feel these men, he seems cool.
And his big thing is that. He is nice. He's like a nice, good guy. That's his deal. But then we have Elizabeth trying to figure out, like she has this for once, like actually helpful conversation with her mother. Alice Wakefield is helpful and gives her like some pretty solid advice. I thought, which was, she finds out that Elizabeth in trying to decide between Jeffrey and Todd has kind of been making all these pro con lists.
But Alice is like, did you fall in love with Todd because of a list of his good qualities? Like, did you fall in love with Jeffrey because of a list of his good qualities? Like no, Alyssa is not gonna tell you what you need to do here. You have to listen to your feelings. What did you think of that? I like when Alice
gets her, her mom on, she doesn't
often.
Right? Well, as long as we're talking about Alice Wakefield, who is a interior decorator, this book revealed. Deliciously juicy home decor detail at the Wakefield's house that apparently they have a copper colored refrigerator.
Did not notice that. Yeah.
Uh, that's just that jumped out at me. I don't think that that has ever been described as such
before am I?
I was doing some
Googling trying to see what the copper colored refrigerator might've looked like, and I'm still not totally sure, but it seemed like a seventies thing that was happening. We had actually, it made me remember that we had a like harvest gold refrigerator when I was growing up like very seventies.
I mean, my parents got married in the eighties, so the refrigerator was probably from like 1981 or something, but yeah, harvest gold. It was ugly as hell, but I didn't know any better, you know, it's just our refrigerator.
I've never thought about
it.
Like, I couldn't tell you what color our refrigerator
was growing up.
Well, it's probably because it was likely a normal, a normal refrigerator color, like
white or
Chrome. Yeah. Yeah. What's happening. Like what we're careening quickly toward here is that Todd Wilkins is having a big party at his house, of course, to like introduce his house and his new status and everything.
The fact that he's back to the town, he's told Elizabeth about it, but because of Courtney canes, scheming, there's all this like, confusion about whether Todd is going to ask Elizabeth to be his date, which would be pretty bold frankly, or like, is he going to ask Courtney to be his date is Courtney and a cohost the party with him?
Like there are all these rumors flying around. Yeah. Elizabeth finally gets this like formal invitation in the mail and she thought it was just going to be like a casual party. But she doesn't know the new Wilkins is a guest cause it's like engraved invitations and it's
like a formal party with like fancy like prom dresses and
shit, I thought.
But when she gets the invitation in the mail, it says it's for Elizabeth Wakefield and friend, like bring a date, which
again, Elizabeth is upset about despite the fact that she has a boyfriend, she's kind of starting to pick
up on her own hints here. That like
the fact that
she's, she's so distraught over the fact that Todd didn't invite her to be his date to his party that she's
like, Ooh, maybe that's a sign, but I'm more emotionally invested
in Todd and poor Jeffrey is just like, knows that Elizabeth is torn up about something.
And Elizabeth is clearly just like going through the motions, you know, trying to put on a happy face, but is clearly very upset about something or other. And they go to the party together. Oh, did you notice that Elizabeth comes and picks up Jeffrey in the fiasco, but then gets out of the car and Jeffrey drives to the party?
Yes. I had to go back and
reread it. I was like, wait, why is Jeffrey driving a
Fiat? Like, oh, I see they really, they spelled it all up for
us.
Super, super feminist
let's switch places. So
you can drive me to the party, to your ex boys.
Yeah. Up in this place, which is like down. This is where we find out that it's like on the same street as the follower crest, whatever that means.
And, uh, it's a huge and imposing and Todd is there, but there's no valet, is there no valet, there should be a valet. I don't like that kind of party, but I guess it was just places to park. This is clearly. In the Hills, like, um, when, sorry, this is I'm speaking from personal experience as like someone who lives in LA and has worked for wealthy people that lived in the literal Hills of Beverly Hills, you kind of do have to hire a valet because there's no place to park.
Those streets are so windy and narrow
and they say that there are already a couple dozen
cars parked. Well, I guess it's just another mark towards this litter, not being the Los Angeles Metro area, because wherever they're parked, wherever, whatever hill they lived on, there must be some like wide ass drives for
people to build their own
magnificent driveways on or whatever.
I don't know, parking lot parking lot.
Oh, that's the next wave in? Uh, the 1%, uh, buildings
came their own parking lots, so, okay. We've got. This party, Elizabeth, the whole party. She was just like counting down the minutes until it will be over essentially. Uh,
she just doesn't talk to Jeffrey anymore. They're still together.
She just doesn't ever speak to him
and he's really trying to be a good sport. But, um, there was this moment when things, I don't know, I was kind of wondering like, how was the song? And I come out like what's going to happen. And the book had some real intrigued deliver for us, uh, Jeffrey over Elizabeth shoulder, while they're dancing, sees Courtney Kane slip a note in Elisabeth's like jacket or purse or something.
And Jeffrey's like, Hmm, I wonder what's up. Elizabeth goes to the bathroom and Jeffrey goes to find Courtney who was just slipped this note in Elisabeth's, uh, Pers. Do you remember whether it's her purse or pocket? It's really not important. It's her pocket.
Yeah. Courtney wrote this completely false note from Todd telling Elizabeth to come meet him out in a gazebo and then she's all.
Oh, I don't feel well, Todd, please take me out from some air, but makes him walk across the whole dang property through an Grove.
She says that she wants to lie down
in the gazebo, which I thought was so weird. Like this is
cause Depot have beds, like, like I'm familiar with the concept of a gazebo. You know, I lived in a small town that had one won several.
In fact, I'll I read lots of romance, novels, gazebos are
often important fixtures in those. They don't usually have
like beds or like even like a chaise long. Like they don't usually have.
That, I mean, sound of music. You get some benches, I guess she couldn't lie on the bench. Yeah. Oh, so bizarre to pass the orange Grove in the gazebo, you have an orange Grove,
not some orange trees.
That also was good.
Serious romance, novel
vibes, like, like re historical romance novel. That's like whole property that they have endless the secret meaning. Cause like, you know, the couples have to go meet where it's dark and nobody will see them. You know, if they're going to have a rendezvous or else there'll be still be a scandal.
Right. That happens on Britain. So, um, but also in romance novels, like the ones that the Bridgeton series is based on, but uh, Todd's
like dragging her the whole way. Cause she's like, she turns, she pretends to
turn her ankle also something that
has definitely happened in romance novels
that I've read. I have a headache, please help me outside too loud.
Even outside the party is too loud. Listen, I get migraines.
No one has ever had to help me get
somewhere. Yeah. And Todd is weirdly like, he's both, like, this seems like. A lot, but he's like going along with it, even when she says she wants to lie down in the gazebo, he's like, okay, if that's what you want is when he says something like
that, that's what you want.
And that's what you
want to do. So he takes her there. And meanwhile is with us in the bathroom. She's reading the note, which she notices was printed and Todd never prints, but she just noticed, she doesn't think that much about it. She was like, oh, Todd is a cursive boy. Okay. Another thing I like about it.
Oh God.
Well, everybody was in the eighties, but it's a such a weird like point. Like does he? I don't know.
Um, so then. Courtney, like as soon as they could to the gazebo, she's like all hands and she gets real handsy with Todd and then she starts kissing him. I, you know, Todd being
a 16 year old boy, when he finds that someone is kissing him, me returns the kids just a little bit.
And he's like, oh, this is happening. No. Okay.
Um, I can't really fault him for that, even though, as soon as it's over, he's just like in a daze and he D he has no idea that Elizabeth has like, sneaked up on them and seen this happen. He's completely unaware, but not just Elizabeth. Yes. Tell them, tell the gladiators what's happened.
Just Jeffrey
has gone off to find out what is going on with Courtney as well.
Courtney. So he, he heard her whole speech to Todd her whole trumped up speech. He knows exactly what has unfolded, and he has seen the look on Elizabeth's face when she caught them kissing.
But nobody has seen him with his glowing blonde hair is luminous eyes, literally
like flashlight hair.
And he is, he Elizabeth even drops the note from Courtney. So he has the benefit of being able to read exactly what he fills with saw. And he puts all the pieces together and then bless his heart
because Jeffrey French is the best of us. Yes.
Okay. So here's what Jeffrey thinks.
"Now I'm the one who has to make a choice," Jeffrey realized. Jeffrey knew whom he loved,
ugh, love that grammar. Okay.
Jeffrey knew whom he loved. Elizabeth was the most important person in his life. And he would do anything to keep her and he could keep her by staying quiet about what he'd seen. She and Todd would never know how Courtney Kane had manipulated.
But I'd know, Jeffrey thought heaving, a troubled sigh. He knew he would pay for it every day. Every time he was with Elizabeth, in order to have her all to himself, Jeffrey would have to shoulder a heavy load of guilt. He could keep quiet and feel guilty, or he could tell Todd the truth about Courtney's scheming and risk losing Elizabeth forever.
and he goes on and thinks about how great Elizabeth is and thinks Elizabeth had never let him down. And I can't let her down. Now Jeffrey's throat ached with on the shed tears in the end. If I really love her, isn't it, her happiness. That's it's important.
I mean, I mean, that's it, but also. Elizabeth has been letting you down for weeks, Jeffrey.
She has been with Todd in her mind
that whole time sort of kissed once. Although both of them was like not counting it as real, like, cause their lips brushed. And I'm sorry, like
not to pull out the rule book on kissing and like cheating
behavior here, but I'm pretty sure
if two people
lips
touch, that means that they kiss when I was in high school.
Uh, I dunno, we were on a trip somewhere and my best friend was with us. And there were always these like boys at hotels and stuff. And I definitely got into a situation where it was like, I don't know, I don't know what happened, whatever. And I remember Christy Rouse looking at me by vending machines. It goes.
Did his lips touch yours? Then you kissed.
Oh my gosh.
I am so glad that you told that story. I live on sweet valley diaries for an actual true life high school drama story. Yeah. And they ended, they had it.
I mean, yes, yes. I guess I was just very Christie was right. You Christy was from you and kissed and Elizabeth and Todd kissed, even though it was like an accident.
I don't know. She does not bring that up to Jeffrey. And,
um, she like runs away right after it happens. And Todd's, they're both kind of like, I wonder if that's good or
not, like, is that a good sign that she ran away after we sort of almost kind of kissed??
No,
it's a good sign for who? I don't know. It's all just so confused.
Speaking of confused people, Elizabeth is really upset and confused. She leaves the goddamn
party. She takes her fiance and she, I
know how to drive it again. I guess she drives it to Seca lake,
which this book is leaves Jeffrey Jeffrey.
There doesn't tell a soul. She's just like so
up for him. She does look for history.
But she can't because he's out high to find him cause little does she know? He was like a feet away from her the whole time
she drives mindlessly, like swerving in her lane. Like she
should not be behind the wheel. And
when I, when the book describes where she drives, it's like, she's at this, like at second lake at night on an abandoned road that you're
not supposed to drive down, going
towards a boathouse.
That's also abandoned. And I'm like, Elizabeth, you have been kidnapped so
many times. I was like,
what is going to happen? There's not enough
pages for this book to have a whole kidnap and rescue blot, but this seems bad. Sounds like a horror movie waiting to happen. Also, this is
some real, I mean, not to pull this card, like the, I've read every sweet valley book up to this one card, but like.
Why am I here, if not to do that. And this is some real reverse engineering here of, uh, this book suggesting that this abandoned boat house at second lake was a really important place to Todd and Elizabeth. So important. In fact, that when Jeffrey is the like Uber mench, speaking of Superman of the whole sweet valley high male universe and tells Todd what happened, what Courtney did about the letter, all of that.
Todd knows that since Elizabeth's not at her house, which is the first place he goes to look for her, she must be at the abandoned boathouse at second lake. Yes. Even though it's never come up before. Pretty sure it hasn't. I mean, listen, all these teens love the hell out of some Seco lake. Like they got a second leg left right.
And center, but I never
knew
that that abandoned boathouse, the Secca Lake was specifically Todd and Elizabeth's, like special spot, but sure enough, it is, and Todd finds her there and he tells her what happened and he's left his own party. Yeah.
Elizabeth had been nestled in the crook of Todd's arm. Now she sat up and pulled away from him, slightly Jeffrey.
She thought Todd and I wouldn't be together at this moment. If it weren't for Jeffrey, he had been the one to figure out what Courtney had done. Then he'd share the truth with Todd, even though he must have known, he might be sending Todd straight into Elizabeth's arms. It was a brave, generous and unselfish thing to do.
Elisabeth's throat ached the tears threatening once again.,
Oh,it's very similar to Jeffrey's throat recently. Okay. Maybe they have the same illness.
Jeffrey had done many sweet things for her over the course of their relationship, but this last gesture was perhaps the sweetest of all. At
which point, I guess the book could have been, like "Elizabeth realized that this one that was unselfish act of love
was worth more to her than anything she and Todd had ever shared.
And also she's been dating Jeffrey for 28 books and she only dated Todd for 23."
But, um, it doesn't instead, it's just like "Todd it's as if you never left,"
because he
was only
gone for like three weeks.
Yeah. Todd literally does say it's like, I never left. And Elizabeth, like, no things are different now and that's right.
And, and you don't go to my, my school anymore. Um, and you live in this Brian House and you've got like scheming chicks trying to, trying to trick you, but. That is the setup then to the tease for book 59, which, uh, would you care to read the little teaser for book 59? I just
closed everything. Well, I want to, as
while you're pulling it up, let me just read the last couple of sentences.
She and Todd had shared the past and conquered the obstacles of the present. Their future together started tomorrow. I mean, I would argue the future started right... Every second is the beginning of the future, but whatever semantics and it could be, would be even better than their past. So some real bold time time play from these books where time doesn't really exist.
But anyway, go ahead.
Is everything Rosie and Elizabeth and Todd's future? Find out in Sweet Valley High in number 59, In Love Again.
That's exciting. So back for more, is it going to be just like before, as I recall, just
like before for Elizabeth and Todd is like Elizabeth,
constantly the least rational about everything related to Todd as that she is about anything in her entire life as already
evidenced in this book from the moment he is going to
return.
Elizabeth's
uh, innate rationality is just like thrown out the window.
She'll pay for it.
Yeah, probably. Well, I mean, and whether or not. Nevermind. I don't even want to get into it. I was going to make a comment about sweet valley, confidential gladiators. If you ever hear me say something that seems to be disregarding the events of Sweet Valley Confidential, you can go ahead and just trust that I know what happens in Sweet Valley
Confidential, and I just don't fully accept it.
So, um, and it's Elisabeth's own fault from cheesy,
but other than Jeffrey French
from, well,
Jeffrey, French isn't even in those books. So it makes me wonder, like what's going to happen to Jeffrey French before these books are out. But
anyway, um, you have a lot of thoughts and feelings, as I recall about Jeffrey French, some of which we've gotten a little glimpse at let's, uh, let's remember Jeffrey French together in our extra drama episode next week for now.
Do you have any thoughts about whether you're an Elizabeth or a Jessica or someone else? Uh, Courtney, maybe
I have always been an Elizabeth. Until we
get to this book. Sure. So
you're in Elizabeth with Jeffrey
Elizabeth,
uh, Jeffrey Elizabeth we'll call it. I don't like what she does. It's out of character for Elizabeth.
How irrational she is. It doesn't, it doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I
am a Geoffrey French fan
and if I had to make a list, it would be Jeffrey.
Yeah. Well, and I wish the book had given us the benefit of Elizabeth lists. Like what were the things about Jeffrey versus Todd? What was she putting on her list?
And we don't really get a glimpse of that. Maybe she liked basketball over soccer.
Yep.
Yeah. Maybe she likes Chestnut brown hair and silver blonde
hair. This, this is the thing. Jessica being Jessica. When she actually gets a relationship. I feel like it's a way more devoted girlfriend than
Elizabeth.
Interesting. Oh, well we can't end this episode
without letting me let haters know what goes down with Sheffield Eastman.
Okay. Here, here's this in, in closing sort of Sheffield has had, this thing has been alluding to throughout the brief time has known Jessica, which is that he's making a special petition to spend his senior year doing this, um, like special trip, uh, taking some time away from school.
And we know that he's like a globe Trotter. He has been to Africa. He's been to Switzerland. Surely he's been to great Britain. He's been all around Greece and he's been a lot of places. So Jessica is like trying to get him to talk to the other, like her friends at the party about, about him so that she can basically like, they can be jealous of her and like bask and how cool and awesome.
And like suave he is. So here is what Sheffield finally reveals like what his big plan is to have like special dispensation to do something more involved than just like writing a paper for his senior project.
So I asked to take a semester off to do some special research for my thesis. And my proposal was just approved.
He announced excitedly Jessica beamed Sheffield would probably be spending the semester touring the medieval cathedrals of Europe trading bonds on the floor of the New York stock exchange climbing, Mount Everest. What does your project involve? Asked Ken Jessica held her breath. She kept her eyes trained on Laila's face.
This was one reaction she didn't want to miss. Well for a while now I've really been thinking about my lifestyle and privileges. Sheffield began. I have everything I need to be comfortable, and a lot more, but there are a lot of people who aren't nearly so fortunate. I've been volunteering occasionally at a homeless shelter in Santa Barbara, and next year I'll be living there and working full time.
It took a moment for Sheffield's words to sink into Jessica's brain. She watched as Lila's pout changed into a look of amusement. "A homeless shelter? What?!" Jessica turned and stared disbelievingly at Sheffield.
So this is like a fucking deal breaker for Jessica. Like she's so offended that he's going to do this
one.
What does he mean? He's going to live at
a homeless shelter? Like I kind of how
problematic that is. Like you're taking a bed from a
homeless person?
Well, maybe he means he's going to live in Santa Barbara and work full time at the homeless shelter.
Let's absolve Sheffield of Any, of any,
uh, any doubts here? Because
I want to focus on Jessica and
Lila's reaction to this. Like you're
doing what? like, gross! He says,
he's going to sell his Mercedes to donate the money
to charity. Jessica thinks, "his Mercedes that gorgeous midnight blue car in which she arrived at the party.
Jessica just kept staring at Sheffield. How could he do this to her?
So disgusting. Oh my God. Can you imagine the like, like, I don't know,
gen Z like readers for serious, like this like reaction.
To the like, charitable, like good works of
a male character. I don't know.
Nevermind. I think you should have a Gen Z reader on yeah.
To give their take.
Yep. I think you're probably right. Yep. Um, well, listen, Shey, thank you immensely for going through the pain of losing Jeffrey. We had a cat being a guest on the show. It's always wonderful to have you. I hope that someday you can be back again. I don't know what the future holds for Jeffrey, but uh, we're going to keep an eye out.
I'm curious. Is he going to move away? Is he going to die? Are they just going to stop talking about him? We'll find out. Oh no. Um, so until next week, gladiators, uh, this is Marissa saying if the lips touch, it's a kiss. That's my advice for you this week. Uh, you can, uh, please tell a friend about Sweet Valley Diaries.
Uh, follow us on Instagram at sweet valley diaries or on Twitter at sweet valley. Um, I was a couple of weeks ago. I was a guest on Babysitter's Club Club, much to my surprise once again. So if you listen to their episode about Wrong Kind of Girl, Number 10, which you may recall is the book that made me start writing and blogging about Sweet Valley High, uh, way back in 2006.
Uh, I found it in a bin and it was shocking to me. So then they called me up and I was briefly a guest on the show, which was a lot of fun. Um, you can subscribe to my newsletter if you want. It's not usually about sweet valley high, but sometimes it is. And you can do that by going to flaxbart.substack.Com until then.
Until next week. I mean to say, bye.
It is is everything rosy in Elizabeth and Todd's future find out in sweet valley, high number 59, and love again, everything. All right. Let's see if you can parse this message that I'm sending you.
Oh yeah.
Posted at 08:14 AM in Breakups, Elizabeth, Jeffrey French, Moving, Podcast, Romances, Todd | Permalink | Comments (0)
CW: This book is about a teacher crush
Terrible Book Club’s Paris and Chris dare to join Marissa to tackle this downright nerve-wracking tale of Olivia Davidson and her lust for painting teacher Stuart “Call me Stuart” Bachman. A book that is truly challenging to read in public.
***
Listen to the Terrible Book Club Podcast!
AUTO-GENERATED TRANSCRIPT:
Book #57: TEACHER CRUSH
[00:00:00] Marissa: Welcome to sweet valley diaries. The podcast. That's a mini course in drama. Book number 57, Teacher Crush.
[00:00:21] Paris: Has olivia met
the man
of
[00:00:23] Chris: her dreams?
[00:00:24] Marissa: Hello everyone. Welcome to sweet valley diaries. I'm your host, Marissa Flaxbart and I am joined today. I'm so excited to be joined today by Paris and Chris of the terrible book club podcast. Hi Paris.
[00:00:41] Paris: hello and thanks for having us on today.
[00:00:43] Marissa: I'm so thrilled. You guys, I can already tell how prepared you are and you're bringing your, your vast knowledge of, of terrible books in general to sweet valley high, specifically as a series. Um, your show is so much fun. A show where you read books that you think are going to be bad based on like their covers or titles.
And I understand you have a lot of, uh, books that are suggested by listeners. Um, and have you ever read a sweet valley high novel before?
[00:01:13] Paris: no,
[00:01:14] Chris: absolutely not fresh as a Daisy to this world.
[00:01:19] Marissa: Welcome, welcome.
[00:01:20] Paris: I'm pretty excited because I remember hearing about your show and being like that would be the most perfect guest spot. And then like magic, perhaps a year later, is happening.
[00:01:31] Marissa: it when that happens. I'm very curious to hear ultimately your take on how terrible this particularly terrible book was, but I feel like the most terrible thing about this particular book is probably just like the general concept, which, uh, made me nervous to read it in public.
I was working on reading this book in public today and I was like, I'm just going to fold that cover right over the front so nobody can see that I'm reading a book called teacher crush.
[00:02:01] Paris: Yeah.
[00:02:02] Chris: why I read this on my phone. So it just looks like I was looking at my phone, like everyone else does all the
time.
[00:02:07] Marissa: unassuming. Nothing to see here.
[00:02:10] Paris: Well, the funny thing about it is because I'm so estranged from work, Chris and I are both estranged from this series. I was like, oh, is this a newer one? Like, because it was available electronically. I started reading it and I was like, weird that they're, like, calling house phones?
Where are they using? So like, it didn't occur to me that this was actually taking place in like 1989 or so thing
until maybe like a third of the way. And I was like, I'm an idiot.
[00:02:37] Marissa: Well, that definitely adds a whole new dynamic because one of the reasons that this podcast even exists really that my fascination personally, with sweet valley high is a lot of it comes from the way that from a modern perspective, so much of what happens in these books seems really strange.
in this case, again, I, it goes back the strangest thing about it is that it exists at all. Not so much the actual content of how it unfolds in the book.
[00:03:01] Paris: Yeah. And Chris was like, Paris, this, no, this is from the original series. And I was like, I don't know it was available digitally. I thought maybe it was a new
[00:03:08] Chris: Who's Robert Redford as a handsome guy referenced. That's not happening currently. No, one's no. Teenage girl was like, oh, Robert Redford.
[00:03:19] Paris: was actually one of my turning points where I was like, oh, this is definitely a book from 30 years ago. Okay. Yeah.
[00:03:25] Marissa: Right. So I'm careful listeners will maybe guess that they have a Collins' watch coming up in their future, Mr. Collins, but that is not the teacher in question here in Teacher Crush. This is a book that is about Olivia Davidson or as a, her sort of heroic couplet often goes a frizzy haired, Olivia Davidson.
Um, and she's pictured on the cover here. I know it's just awful.
[00:03:51] Paris: well as a
frizzy haired girl.
[00:03:53] Marissa: Yeah. Same..
[00:03:55] Paris: Yeah.
[00:03:56] Marissa: It's like, that's not a thing. That's like a thing on the styling product that you buy to try to fix a problem. It's not, a descriptor that you want applied to you every single time you're mentioned, but that's Olivia's lot.
well she's here on the cover of the book. So let's tell the Gladiators what the cover of the book looks like.
[00:04:16] Paris: Olivia is. Painting while simultaneously looking smug as fuck. She's just like, yeah, this is the best fucking painting. This teacher's gonna gonna fuck me.
[00:04:28] Marissa: she does kind of look like she's thinking that I, I, I, it didn't occur to me, but now that you say it, that's, that's the face she's got. That's what that face is. She's wearing the, these really big earrings and like silver bangles. And I wonder, do you think this is her hip outfit? Because Olivia's clothes are described a lot in this book.
Like her gauzy shirts and her wrap cotton skirts, she's got kind of like an artsy free spirit girl. Look, do you think that this particular outfit is like post that or?
[00:05:03] Paris: the jumpsuit from the end of the book? I can't cause it wasn't it
[00:05:07] Chris: That looks too baggy to be a jumpsuit. Like the sleeves
[00:05:10] Paris: Chris it's 1989,
[00:05:13] Chris: Okay.
[00:05:13] Paris: 99. I forget why you're
88.
[00:05:15] Chris: I
feel like
[00:05:16] Marissa: no, you're right. 89. August of 89 is when this book is.
[00:05:20] Chris: big close look was more of like a mid nineties, late nineties thing, not an E like eighties thing was all like tighter and like leather
[00:05:27] Marissa: Yeah, this is the kind of mid nineties look, but I think you're right. That it could be the jumpsuit because it's purple. And I will also say for what it's worth that I definitely fought that in this picture. She was, she had her locker open and was like putting something in her locker. Every time I looked at this book
cover until I read the book and now I look at it, I'm like, how did I ever think that it's very clearly an easel?
Like she's painting a painting.
[00:05:53] Paris: Well, you, you think that because, um, the actual action is poorly rendered because all you see is the back of the easel. And then her hand, because of the angle of the, of the illustration, her hand isn't holding anything.
So just looks like she's, I don't know, like caressing the canvas, like she must have like a tiny ass piece of charcoal or something, but wait.
[00:06:16] Marissa: We know she's painting with acrylics.
[00:06:19] Paris: Yeah. But she's painting, right? She has painting with acrylic. All right. The artist fucked up or
[00:06:23] Chris: a bad artist. She can't art.
[00:06:25] Marissa: Well,
it's really especially random because he's literally painting like a, oh, you know what? I think he might've done these in oil pastels. So he's got a little like caran d'ache in his hand. And, uh, he, he didn't think of, uh, of putting a painting in someone else's hand. That's my
[00:06:45] Paris: Yeah, I think you might be right. I mean, I also think that these artists, art, like book artists get short changed a lot where they're only given like a couple of details and sometimes nothing at all, and they have to produce something. And then somehow it's like incongruous to what's actually happening in the book or what people in the book actually look like.
We've seen that a lot on our show. So,
[00:07:06] Marissa: Yes. The same. Thing's true here.
[00:07:08] Paris: your thought though, about the artist actually using a certain medium and therefore replicating that medium rather than what's in the book is probably spot on.
[00:07:15] Marissa: Well, I really don't want to say a bad word against James Mathewuse. Who did these paintings? I think his work on the series is one of the most memorable and recognizable things about the books. So I love him very much. I love his work. And I'm wondering where her pain brushes. That's all I'm saying.
[00:07:32] Paris: Oh yeah, no, definitely. No, this is a very quality portrait of someone. I mean, Chris and I have seen our share. Terrible book art. Um, and this is an excellent piece of book art. I have no qualms with the quality. It's very good. I mean, the fact that I can look at this and see that she's kind of smug and probably thinking about that teacher is, mwah,
that's that's excellent. Excellent execution.
[00:07:57] Marissa: Um, so the reason that Olivia is painting at all is because many courses have come to sweet valley high. When do you guys think about mini courses?
[00:08:07] Chris: sounds like a legitimate thing that someone that is like a freelance art person would have to do to make rents or something, even in 1989, just like, okay. I guess I'll teach kids for two weeks, which is barely any time to learn anything in any skill set at all.
So I don't understand what was being taught, especially when in the mini courses, it seems like the teachers like give them a guideline of like do this project and then offer no help whatsoever
[00:08:35] Marissa: Yeah.
you guys have to figure it out.
[00:08:37] Paris: it's incredible. Two weeks. What the hell can I learn to do in two weeks? It's like build a toaster alarm clock. It's like, wouldn't, you have to have so much foreknowledge about electronics or, you know, for example, in the fashion course, when you have to understand patterns and sewing and like techniques and, and draping, it's like, you can't learn all that.
[00:08:58] Marissa: Well, apparently among the topics you can learn are painting pottery, jewelry, design, dress, design, filmmaking, electronics. I loved how specific the book got about how they were going to explain the way that these, the school made room for these courses and the fact that it was the PTA's idea, like really getting granular about like, we're going to cut five minutes from every course.
And then we're going to add 10 minutes at the end of the school day and it's going to make an extra class. I'm sure all the teachers were thrilled about that.
[00:09:30] Paris: That is some realism. This book I got to say, like, you know, those PGA's out there. Like how can we get the kids to learn practical skills? Okay. I know I thought about it all weekend. We're going to shave 10 minutes off the classes and then, and then add 10 minutes at the end of the, it will be great. And they're like, oh, Barbara, fine, fine.
We voted in. We're tired of hearing from her. Let's try it. You know, um, seems like a very real way. This sort of happened.
[00:09:57] Marissa: Yeah, well, so at the beginning of the book, we have all of the kids sort of excited and they're picking like their top four and almost everybody like, which are the ones that they would like to do. And almost everybody gets assigned to the thing they want. We've got Elizabeth and Enid and Olivia in painting, and we've got Lila Fowler in, uh, the dress design course.
And Jessica has decided that maybe it would be fun to do a course that boys were taking, uh, rather than something dumb, like dress design that was going to be full of girls. But she puts electronics as her third choice. And when she gets placed in the electronics class is really disappointed
[00:10:39] Chris: i, so that sucks, right? We're supposed to dislike Jessica because she sucks. Right. She's terrible. And I hate her and she
[00:10:47] Paris: Yeah. Yeah. Jessica is awful of Chris and I had so many notes in the book like, man, fuck Jessica. Jessica sucks again. But I mean, my counter to that is like, yes, Jessica sucks. But in terms of realism, you know, I think if you're talking high school, especially dramatic high school, you're going to have some shithead perspectives.
And like this series seems to me to be trying to be a slice of life thing that kind of goes on for a long time. And it wouldn't really make sense of every character was likable. That being said, Jessica gets a lot of airtime for sucking.
[00:11:24] Chris: I guess I'm curious, because again, having not come into this. I think that Elizabeth and Jessica are supposed to be the protagonists. So why, why does one protagonist sucks so hard? Or why is she supposed to be the evil twin to Elizabeth? Nice girl.
[00:11:41] Marissa: essentially exactly what it is. And I think that very quickly, they realized that they couldn't make her literally evil. She needed to just be kind of like the like teenage girl version of evil that like some of the kids reading the books would really be excited about. One of her more egregious moments in this book comes when she's paired up as a lab partner with Randy Mason, who has been Randy Mason and Jessica have an ancient history where she basically like used him to cheat, to like fake a grade for a class and got them in big trouble. This book seems to have no memory of that ever happening.
[00:12:21] Paris: Oh, she did it again.
[00:12:26] Marissa: But there's, um, there's a moment in this book when she's basically like, it makes me uncomfortable to even look at him because he's short or he's wearing corduroy pants that nobody wears anymore.
[00:12:41] Paris: Excuse me. It's 1989. I was wearing corduroy pants in the nineties. Let the record
show.
[00:12:47] Marissa: they came back around, but we probably should, um, have a little bit of sympathy for Jessica because she's recently been through an ordeal and I was really excited to ask you guys if maybe we could play a little guessing game. Um, could you guess just take a wild guess? What do you think happened to Jessica in the previous book?
If you could guess
[00:13:07] Chris: horrible earthquake.
[00:13:09] Marissa: interesting guests from Chris. Okay.
No closer than you might think. Uh, Paris.
[00:13:16] Paris: what happened to Jessica? I don't think we were given any clues other
than her. Is she the one where her boyfriend moved away? I kind of forgot to be
[00:13:25] Marissa: Nope, you, you sure didn't get any clues. And it's really remarkable because this book drops all sorts of little clues about how, uh, Olivia's old boyfriend, Roger Barrett Patman used to be Roger Barrett and he was poor. And how Todd Wilkins moved away. And now Elizabeth is dating Jeffrey French.
Like there's all these little backstory things that come up, but the book doesn't bother telling you at all that in the previous book, uh, Jessica Wakefield and Winston Egbert were, um, stranded for, uh, two days in one night on an island, uh, in the Channel Islands and thought to be dead
because they were lost at sea during a, um, uh, during a big storm that happened as a part of an extra credit, uh, science field trip.
[00:14:12] Chris: Is sweet valley cursed. Is this a curse valley?
[00:14:16] Paris: it is a hidden valley. This is the curse valley. That's sweet
[00:14:21] Chris: We stole all that. We mined all the ranch and now all the ranch demons have cursed us
[00:14:26] Marissa: that is a theory. Considering how many times Elizabeth Wakefield has been kidnapped at this point? I think a curse might be a realistic suggestion. I think that might be what's going on here.
[00:14:36] Paris: Wait
[00:14:37] Chris: That's
[00:14:39] Marissa: Oh, you know, this guy and that guy over time.
[00:14:43] Chris: demons, the ranch demons. You see it too. It started as the hidden valley and then they all moved in and they mined it out. And now it's the sweet valley because the tangy ranch is no longer there. And they are all cursed by the ranch demons, the ghosts of the ranch that live there and are angry
[00:14:59] Paris: I think you're right. I'm honestly willing to go with this theory.
[00:15:03] Marissa: you heard it here first folks. This is a breaking news. I think I can tell that you've put some thought and
[00:15:11] Chris: the
[00:15:11] Marissa: into this. Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:15:13] Chris: I've done so much YouTube research. Let me tell you they have the answers.
[00:15:17] Marissa: I've definitely been wondering for a while now about how the town is both a beach town and a valley town. So maybe that helps explain it like something about the, the ranch mining process is how, whatever, whatever used to be a valley. It's now somehow a beach side, a sea town.
[00:15:38] Paris: Maybe it's just a very large town.
[00:15:42] Marissa: Yes, that could definitely be. Um, so we have done a monumental job of, of only getting through the first few pages of the book so far, but there's so much to talk about. No, no, it's, it's great because we, you know, we set up Jessica and she's in this electronics class and then we have, um, Olivia. So the first thing that we learn about Olivia in this book is that she desperately would like to have a boyfriend.
Again, she broke up with her boyfriend several books ago at this point, the aforementioned Roger. So here's the passage
where Olivia, we get a glimpse into Olivia's initial mindset.
Sometimes I get so lonely. I can't stand it. Olivia continued. If I had a boyfriend, everything would be great.
Olivia wants a bf
[00:16:28] Marissa: I'd have someone to hang around with on weekends and wouldn't feel so lonely all the time. Olivia, you can still feel lonely. Even if you do have a boyfriend, Elizabeth said firmly, and it's nuts to think that having a boyfriend makes all your troubles vanish Olivia shrugged, as if she didn't believe it.
Well, it would make a lot of them vanish. She said quietly, everyone I know is part of a couple, the school feels like Noah's Ark or something. I'm the only one who doesn't belong on board..
[00:16:57] Paris: Honestly. That was one of the few things I really liked about this book is that there is a friend who's like, look, man, you don't need a boyfriend to be happy. Like, it was nice to see that at the beginning of a book that's for, you know, young kids, I just feel like so many books aimed at this age, demographic very much skew with the, you need a partner direction.
And it's just nice that there's a friend who's like, you don't need that.
[00:17:21] Marissa: Yeah, so, uh, the reason that I feel like it's good groundwork to lay is just that. This is maybe fueling Olivia's mindset a little bit as we go into the mini courses. So all the kids have there's like this, I guess it must just be the junior class. There's this big assembly where there is an announcement about who's going to be the teachers of these different mini courses, but they've got various artists like Chris was alluding to like people that need to make a little extra cash.
So they're like, sure. I'll teach a course for two weeks down at the local high school. Fine. Um, so we have a couple of recurring, uh, segments that sometimes happen on the show. The part of the podcast where we talk about boys
[00:18:07] Marissa: and also Collins watch 2021,
where we, we keep an eye on Mr.
Collins and how the books, um, choose to sexualize him. And here we have a passage where the book is doing both things at once.
This is in two parts and the first part, uh, we get Mr. Collins, his big moment in the auditorium.
When Mr. Collins got up to speak, everyone clapped and cheered, the blonde handsome, Robert Redford lookalike was one of the most popular teachers at school.
So Mr. Collins always he's very popular and he's very handsome and those things always go together in the same breath. When things like that happen at your school, eventually you have a book called Teacher Crush.
So a few pages later, he's going to introduce all of the teachers. He introduces somebody named, bill Drexel. Who's going to be teaching electronics, uh, who is, uh, you know, just looks like a normal guy. Sounds like not super handsome, which is the biggest sin you can commit, I guess, in Sweet Valley. Okay. So then he introduces someone else. Okay.
Whoa, Lila gasped grabbing Jessica's arm. Who is that? Jessica followed her gaze. Roger Collins was smiling at a young man who had stood up to be introduced to the room full of students. Now, for all you artists, I'd like to introduce Stuart Bachman, a local painter, he'll be teaching the painting workshop.
Jessica's blue green eyes widened. He was hard to believe Stuart Bachman could live on the same planet as bill Drexel. He was incredibly good looking with longish curly, dark hair and stylish glasses. He looked mysterious. Artistic. Fascinating. It isn't fair. Jessica grumbled again, I can't believe my very own twin sister gets to take a workshop from that gorgeous man while I'm stuck with a teacher who looks like a worm. Lila giggled. Hey, she said, inspired. Maybe you can dress like Liz for the next two weeks and try to sneak into the painting workshop. Jessica shook her head despairingly Liz. Isn't going to switch with me. Are you kidding? She'd be out of her mind to give up a class with anyone who looks like that. So
[00:20:17] Paris: Yeah,
[00:20:18] Marissa: handsome Stuart Bachman.
[00:20:20] Paris: very, very scary to see children being like, oh, well, I can only take classes with people who I am sexually attracted to. It's like what you are going to be in for some shit in college. My friends like you can't, this is not how that works. I like someone's physical appearance has no connection to how good of a teacher they are.
I mean,
[00:20:46] Marissa: So how are you guys feeling at this point in the book? Like, are you concerned? Are you excited? Are you disgusted? How are you feeling?
[00:20:54] Chris: I was wondering how far this book was willing to go in certain aspects of it. It was like, I've already felt like, oh, this is going to be like, is this going to be a very special episode of sweet valley high? Like how, like how far are we going with this and how are they going to play that? Because, I mean, even this scene has already setting up kind of the like, oh, but they were into him, but they really actually liked him.
And I'm like, oh, I don't, it's kind of setting it up as that angle. And I was a little, little nervous about that. A little bit nervous
[00:21:28] Paris: was nervous the whole time. The whole book, I was terrified.
[00:21:31] Chris: I I was waiting for that shoe to drop and for like things to get like dark really quickly.
[00:21:37] Marissa: it toys with us a little bit, right? Like initially I felt a little relief after this because really quickly, um, what happens on the heels of this as is indicated by the cover and the subtitle is that Olivia is just gaga over Stuart Bachman, who starts the first class by insisting the students call him Stuart.
He says, it's his only rule that they call him by his first name and not Mr.
[00:22:01] Paris: biggest eye roll. Oh,
[00:22:05] Marissa: But thankfully Elizabeth's friend Enid really has an Eagle eye on this. And she's like, Elizabeth, I think Olivia has a crush on Stuart and, uh, that's not great. Right? And the book really uses them to be the sort of voices of reason and repeatedly be like, this is bad. This would be a bad thing.
If this happened. Even if Olivia just had a crush on this teacher, this would be bad. Right guys? Right? Right?
[00:22:30] Paris: Yeah, I agree. It was definitely good to see that there, you know, Little angels on shoulders, cause I was really worried that it was going to be like a gaggle of girls egging her on and being like, oh yeah, totally go for It
It was
[00:22:46] Marissa: everybody sees how handsome he is, it kind of seemed at first, like maybe like if it had been Jessica and Lila in the painting class, instead of Elizabeth and Enid, maybe they would have been like, Olivia, I think you should go for it. You know, who knows?
That's the, the mirror world version of this book.
Enid goes as far as to really address this head on with Olivia, which I thought was an amazing, uh, passage here,
E NID IS ON TO HER
Enid nudged Elizabeth. He's a nice looking man. She said nonchalantly, but he's a little on the old side tooled for us.
I mean, old Olivia repeated curiously as if that hadn't occurred to her before for a minute, she looked crushed, but then her face brightened, I don't think he's that old. He just graduated from college two years ago. So he's probably only about 23. Old, Enid said sagely.
We'd never really find out how old Stewart Bachman is.
[00:23:45] Paris: Yeah, but I, yeah, 22, 24. So it was
[00:23:49] Marissa: I think she's rounding down for her own benefit.
[00:23:52] Paris: So we're talking about Stuart and how he's like, I'm a cool teacher, just Stuart, you know, and so much of his behavior is absolutely bewildering in this book. I just, as an adult teaching children, I just don't know how you think any of these interactions are a good idea.
I mean, outside of, I mean, obviously like the classroom stuff is fine, but everything that happens outside of the classroom or after hours, I'm just like, dude, you are skating along the edges of a predator.
[00:24:31] Marissa: Well,
[00:24:32] Chris: he also seems completely oblivious to all of this being possibly a problem
[00:24:37] Paris: Yeah.
[00:24:37] Marissa: He really
[00:24:38] Chris: in a lot of ways.
[00:24:40] Marissa: it starts out with him. Olivia shows a lot of aptitude. She's the arts editor of the newspaper. She's an artsy girl. She shows a lot of aptitude and he really keys into that. And so it's natural at first that they, he pays a lot of attention to her , but because she has this crush on him, she's interpreting everything he does as being sort of like, he might be into her too.
But unfortunately he does more than the average teacher should do. Like you're saying, um, there's a moment early on in the book when she's not sure he could possibly have a thought about her, but then he winks at her and the book says,
WINK
now she knew she wasn't just imagining it. Stuart Bachman really liked her.
It was one thing to say she would do great things, but that wink said so much more. She was certain now he thought she was special in another way, not just as a student. Olivia practically floated out of the studio. All she could think about was that wink and what she hoped, no knew that it meant.
[00:25:37] Paris: Dude. She's right though. She's
[00:25:40] Chris: You cannot be casually throwing winks out here. As a teacher of young people, let me tell you, I am out there ensuring that both of my eyes are closing at all times. Not, I don't even want there to be something in my eyes, even like be like a slow possible wink about any, I am above board about everything.
We don't need to be winking about anything. You're learning music here. I don't need to be coy about it or anything. So please.
[00:26:06] Paris: Yeah. Chris, I didn't even think about that.
You are a music teacher for kids. I mean, I know you have some adult students too, and I didn't even make that connection about how horrifying at a whole other level for you. That's a book.
[00:26:20] Chris: yes, absolutely. I teach anywhere from four year olds to like 70 year olds and like that little, whole entire age range. So there's plenty of teenage girls that I teach as well. And I'm, you know, I'm usually too busy trying to get them to remember a guitar chords, to care about anything else. Nevermind.
Having a passing moment to wink at them about anything, because when they're leaving the class, it's you better practice. you next week.
[00:26:48] Paris: just really liked that we have confirmation winking at a student. Absolutely insane,
[00:26:54] Chris: Absolutely. Forbidden do not.
[00:26:56] Marissa: I have a cousin who is a teacher and, he knows these are cool teacher students like him a lot. And from the very beginning of his high school career teaching career, he has been really purposeful about, you know, referring to the students by their last names, you know, Mr.
And Ms. You know, whatever their last name is by. He's like not on Facebook, under his real name. Like he doesn't even want the opportunity for some, for that kind of misunderstanding to possibly develop like proactively. And in what Bachman do? Well, Stuart Bachman, Olivia looks, Olivia looks up his address
somewhere in, in, uh, in,
[00:27:36] Paris: we talk about the logistics of this when you're done, but continue.
[00:27:40] Marissa: She looks up his address. And then when she's going to pick up some art supplies, she knows she's going to go by his house. Oh, it's so sad. That's my tone of voice. I hope it's conveying how painful this is for me to even think about, poor olivia's embarrassing herself with this crash, but she, she looks up as a dress.
She can't bear the thought of like going by his apartment and not doing something. So she makes up a story that she wants to borrow an art book from him. She wakes him up even though it's 10: 30, cause he doesn't get it before noon because he's a night owl. And then he invites her up to his apartment and pours her a cup of coffee and like encourages her more about what a great artist
[00:28:21] Paris: Dude. I have so many thoughts. All right. I'm going to go on a rant
about
[00:28:24] Chris: Paris go about
your thing first. And then I can talk about Steve after
[00:28:27] Paris: Okay. All right. All
[00:28:29] Marissa: Chris is just waving his hands. Like no, no like dead stop. Let's stop this nip this right in the bud.
[00:28:37] Paris: So like, all right. Uh, first I want to talk about logistics. Then I want to make a comment about the realism of the section, and then Chris can go into his all right. So we're just talking about how she looked up his address. All right. Let me explain. She didn't just open the yellow pages. This girl, this is when like the psycho theme started playing.
Like whenever she was on the page, the back of my head, it was just like, like here she. Remembered that he went to the Riverside Arts Academy. She actually had to go there to get a catalog that had alumni in it. And for some reason it had his address and it was still correct. So this girl remembered where he went to school.
Physically went there, got an alumni catalog and looked up his address, then had the hubris to show up at his house unannounced, you know, and asked to come in. So that's already just bewildering and yeah. And then he's like, oh yeah, it was fine. Just come up and like lets her into his house where they are both alone in his home. And then like, like, you know, like you just said, he's like, oh, I'll make you some coffee. What I mean, that's just the most inviting thing. And then these chat and she's like, oh, I like your place. And they talk it. I forget. I think he even, there's something else kind of weird that he says to her and I can't quite remember.
[00:30:10] Marissa: I think I might be around this time, like he's invites her to this art show that he's has. And There's the thing where he's got a sketch of earrings and Olivia gets this crazy idea in her head that maybe the earrings are for her. it's all very
weird.
[00:30:25] Paris: Yes. He was like, oh, I really want your opinion on this. I mean, the whole thing was like, dude these are, all of these signals are the wrong ones,
[00:30:34] Chris: this was, the point for me where at first I w I did think, oh, maybe Stuart's just a little oblivious. Maybe he doesn't really understand what he's dealing with here. But when, when that happened, I was like, wait, no, this is some predator shit that's happening here. If this girl shows up completely unannounced, yes, it's early, fairly early in the morning for him, I suppose.
But if that happened to me, she was like, oh, I want an art book. I would be like, okay, hold on a second. I'll go get it. Here you go. See ya at school.
[00:31:02] Marissa: It
[00:31:02] Paris: Also, how did you get my address,
[00:31:06] Chris: part
[00:31:06] Marissa: That was my first thought too.
[00:31:08] Chris: as a teacher, you don't necessarily like want to come down too hard on someone you have like a student relationship with.
So I would still try to be nice about it and be like, oh, I, wherever. Okay. Just, you know, Hey, give me a little warning next time, with the secret sort of underlying thing of don't show up next time.
[00:31:24] Marissa: you know what, Chris, if he had done that, it really would have cooled Olivia off a little bit. Instead he like is fanning the flames and making her think that he is genuinely interested in her because he is showing an interest in her actively. We're not the only ones that are starting to suspect Stuart here.
Um, here's something Enid says that a certain point. This is about halfway through the book.
Is Stuart into her?
To tell you the truth. I think he's interested in Olivia. I don't think she's just imagining things. Elisabeth's eyes widened. No way. She protested. Stuart is nice to Olivia the same way he's nice to everyone.
Olivia has a gigantic crush on him. That's for sure. But I don't think for one single second that he feels anything back for her! Enid shrugged. Well, I can't prove it, but just do me a favor and watch him today in the workshop. Then tell me you think Stuart Bachman isn't leading Olivia on.
And they watch him.
And Elizabeth is kind of like, Hmm. He is paying more attention to her. Is this what's going on here?
[00:32:27] Paris: yeah. I mean, when he was just cool with her coming to the apartment, I was like, this shit is going south soon. The one other thing I wanted to mention about that scene about something else I liked about this book in terms of realism, was that it really depicted what it's like to be an artist that persists 32 years later.
Like, you know, you've got a graphic design day job, like Stuart, you pick up a two week teaching gig and then you have a third side job you do late on Friday nights, which is why he was sleeping in on Saturday morning. Your big, oh, I guess we haven't, we haven't gotten to this to the next part yet, but like your apartment is barren apart from easels and paint and your big fancy gift for your girlfriend is nice frame.
[00:33:10] Marissa: right.
[00:33:10] Paris: Just like very much the portion of an artist as a young man, even now it's later.
[00:33:17] Marissa: He describes himself as a starving artist type. And then also says that most artists are, are like that. Like most artists are lucky if they can pay rent.
So realism there. And he also, so I guess I was talking about the art show, but really what's happening is it's like an event at Riverside Art School where he's an alumni that he invites Olivia to because, you know, he thinks it's worthwhile for her to check out an art school.
But afterwards he's like, Hey, can you come over to the store with me? It's called, what is it called? Dimensions! And help me pick out something special for someone special and Olivia's birthday is coming up. So Olivia starts to think, maybe he found out it's my birthday. And he wants me to help him pick out something for me.
[00:34:04] Chris: it is absolutely ludicrous that he says, I want to pick out something for someone special. If you're a 23 year old guy or 24 year old guy, you would just say, oh, I need to pick out a birthday present for my girlfriend. Can you help? Like, there's no reason for him to be coy about that.
I know it's just plot convenient to make it seem like, you know, oh, maybe it's too it's there, but like realistically, no dude is going to say that,
especially to a student.
[00:34:29] Paris: no dude, no person, regardless of gender affiliation is going to be like, Hey child, that I teach, you want to come with me after school, in my car to the store to pick out a gift for my girlfriend. Why is that the choice?!
[00:34:42] Marissa: Right.
[00:34:43] Paris: maybe they are entering another dimension, in this store, like,
[00:34:48] Chris: It's the hidden valley demons cursing his brain and making them make bad. He's not usually here.
[00:34:54] Marissa: Well, Olivia is jumping to some wild conclusions here herself though, which I say wild, I will admit that I found. Uh, something very recognizable in Olivia in this, not, not the part where she has a crush on the teacher, but I feel like as a teenager, I was very able to sort of fantasize about some kind of gesture that someone I had a crush on was going to do for me.
And like how various, various little things were signs that he was thinking about me and was going to, so this is all recognizable and Stuart does, does lead her on however unknowingly, but Olivia is jumping to this huge conclusion that he has a surprise planned for her to the degree that she doesn't make any plans for her birthday on Friday night, because she wants to be available.
Like just in case. She is increasingly coming to believe and expect that Stuart has a surprise planned for her. And they're going to like drink champagne? She's 17, she's turning 17.
[00:35:56] Paris: Oh, that was the scarier thing was that I think the book was trying was kind of telling us that like the age of consent might've been 17 wherever they were, because I mean, it's different in different states and this is also '89 and because it said something like, oh, she was just shy of her birthday.
[00:36:14] Marissa: They certainly didn't spell that out, but I'm going to look it up right now
I'm sorry, algorithm. My algorithm is ruined forever. Um, uh, the result initial result that comes up as 18, but I don't, I would have to do some further digging to see if this actually was truly true in 1989.
[00:36:36] Paris: I thought I took a note about where it was.
[00:36:38] Marissa: Oh, she does say, like, I don't feel that young, you know, and plus her birthday was coming up, you know, like she was going to
[00:36:44] Paris: yeah. Yeah.
[00:36:46] Chris: Folks, if you have to wait for a birthday for something to feel okay, it's probably not on Kern.
[00:36:53] Marissa: not. Okay.
[00:36:55] Chris: Cause like past a certain age, past a certain age, birthdays become more and more meaningless for anything. So therefore if birthday still means something for you, you probably too young for it.
[00:37:06] Paris: true.
[00:37:06] Marissa: Good point. Olivia's expectations of some kind of big birthday surprise and her infatuation with Stewart really start to take a toll on her personal life in another way. It's the like opportunity cost here, right? Because along comes a brand new fellow we never heard of before named Rod Sullivan.
Right?
Rod.
Is that his last name? Yes. Rod Sullivan. What a, what a name? Here's the, here's a moment between Rod and Olivia.
Rod tries
Rod gave her a warm smile, by the way. I really like the stuff you print in the paper. I think you're an excellent editor. Olivia smiled back. He was a nice guy. She wondered why she had never noticed him before.
Look, he said, suddenly blushing a little. Why don't we get together sometime this weekend? Like do something fun, go see a movie or something. Olivia stared at him. Was he asking her out on a date? She was shocked. Oh, uh, well, thanks rod, but... but what? She didn't really have an excuse. She just stared at him embarrassed until he backed off his face.
Crimson. Nevermind. He murmured, he turned and fled living Olivia staring after him and feeling like a jerk. Then Stuart came up behind her, his arms full of supplies. Hi, Olivia. He said giving her a big smile. He looked down the hall after rod. He sure seemed to have scared him off. Is anything wrong? Olivia shook her head.
No, I was just surprised. That's all. He kind of asked me out and I barely know him. Stuart smiled broadly. He has good taste. He said patting her on the arm. I bet you break hearts around
this all the time.
[00:38:51] Chris: No!! bro, bro bro bro. No, no, no, no, no, no. Red, like all like a pile of red flags that could fill the oceans. This whole valley is going to be full. Like that is the most no-no phrase you could say.
[00:39:07] Paris: Um, yeah, so like not only is it both of the things he says are totally inappropriate, but he also makes physical contact. Ah, bad.
[00:39:18] Marissa: I was just hearing an adult man described to me how he was pretty sure that somebody had a crush on him because of how often she touched his arm. Um, and I think the end of that story was
that she didn't, but yeah,
Yeah.
[00:39:33] Paris: I mean, that's especially like young kids. I think when you're young too, a lot of the media that you consume kind of primes you to think like, oh yeah, all these little things mean something because in movies and books and songs, it's always like, oh, you know, this guy likes me because he did this little thing for me.
And then like, oh, this big, this big declaration of love at the end, it's just a very kind of common thing in media that deals with romance where it's like, oh yeah, all those little things really pile up. They really mean something. And then you kind of, you know, you internalize that. And I feel like once you're an adult, you should be aware of that and know.
Like don't don't ever do anything to encourage that in kids, especially in older man. Uh
[00:40:19] Marissa: Stuart seems like one of these guys, who's just like, he has a certain natural charm and charisma and he just wields it indiscriminately. Like, you know, it's just how he is, is probably how, what he thinks.
And that's a problem in this case, because this is how far gone Olivia is on page 89.
Oliva gone
She had started driving past his apartment to see whether or not his car was out front. She had looked up his phone number and twice she had called his apartment from the payphone in school, knowing he wouldn't be at home just so she could hear how sexy his voice sounded on his answering machine.
[00:40:57] Paris: car. I forgot about that part. I
[00:41:00] Marissa: Was this what falling in love was supposed to feel like?
[00:41:03] Paris: No! You're a stalker!
[00:41:07] Marissa: I love it. When these books trot out, the S-E-X- Y word describes something as sexy. This is like, as far as they're willing to go, but sexy voice on the answering machine, that would have been another clue for you that maybe it's not the present
[00:41:21] Chris: Hi, this is Stewart. You've reached my answering machine, but I'm not home
[00:41:29] Paris: I'm currently painting in my boxers. Please leave a message.
[00:41:34] Marissa: Come by later, we'll have some coffee together and chat about whatever you want.
[00:41:38] Chris: Wait, I should rerecord this answering machine message.
[00:41:42] Marissa: Yeah. As in too, it's not just the answering machine. It's that she called him from the payphone at school to leave, to hear his outgoing message on his answering machine. So not present day for so
many reasons, but, um, Well we know that what's coming up, there's like, uh, there are some dovetailing things happening.
The two weeks of the mini courses are ending on Friday and that's also Olivia's birthday. And she finds out that Stuart has a big art opening. His art opening is on Friday and he tells her that she should come. He doesn't know it's her birthday. She should come because he has a special surprise for her there.
So now she's all but certain that this is what he's planned, something special for her birthday.
[00:42:32] Chris: I was all, but certain that this was the predator scene that was about to
happen. He was like, I
got a special surprise for you to come into my car.
[00:42:38] Paris: dude,
[00:42:39] Marissa: The book really does lead us on.
[00:42:41] Paris: I was just shaking in my little literary boots. I was like, oh no. Oh, we're going to have to live through this horrible scene. And now what's going
[00:42:49] Marissa: Well, I get the sense that you guys have read some books that have gone there.
[00:42:54] Chris: Oh yes. Oh, absolutely.
[00:42:56] Paris: Yeah, unfortunately.
[00:42:58] Marissa: she shows up in there as a beautiful, tall slender blonde woman who is not 17 named Monica and Monica has put her arm through Stuart's arm. And, um, somebody mentions to Monica,
MONICA'S BIRTHDAY
Darling, you must've been going nuts while he was putting it up.
It being the art opening.
Did he even remember your birthday?
Which, I had to read that sentence a bunch of times. Cause I was like, wait, is it Monica's birthday today too? Well,
Olivia blinked, she backed up wanting nothing more than to escape, but there was no way to back off now without being obvious, besides Monica was turning toward her with that charming smile of hers. Cindy, this is Olivia, Stuart's star pupil. She helped Stuart choose the most fabulous present for me. She patted Olivia on the arm. Did you know, today is my birthday. This was too much. Olivia couldn't believe her ears at first. Monica's birthday? Today?
I couldn't believe my ears either, but
anyway,
[00:44:00] Paris: Yeah. All of our ears. Unbelieved.
[00:44:03] Marissa: yeah, and it goes on, uh,
Stewart gave me that lovely frame and he told me that you helped him choose it.
And Olivia is like,
the worst part was that Monica didn't even seem jealous of her. She acted completely and totally unthreatened! But why should she be jealous? When Olivia was only Stuart star pupil and Monica was clearly so much more, there was no denying it.
However much Olivia wanted to, she couldn't pretend that Monica and Stuart were just friends, everything about them said otherwise.
So Olivia's like, oh, he had a Monica this whole time.
[00:44:40] Paris: Well, right. But like, if you're Monica, like, all right. All right. So listeners,
[00:44:47] Chris: This was one of my favorite things.
[00:44:48] Paris: listeners, please imagine that it is your birthday. And your boyfriend has decided it's also a great day to do his fucking art show on your goddamn birthday. And you're like, all right, fine, honey. I love you. I support you. This is, this is fine.
It be fun, right. It'll be a fun birthday activity. You're rolling with it. You're rolling with it. And then like, as the weeks roll up, he's like talking a lot about this student at school. And you're like, well, you know, he's found a young budding artist that he feels like he can, he can inspire and kind of coach that's fine.
And then he's like, Hey baby, here's some earrings and a frame. And you know, that 17 year old student at school, I took her to the store to pick out the frame for you. And I also consulted her on the earrings. Oh. And up, we're going to go to her birthday party.
[00:45:38] Marissa: Okay. Okay. So the connecting the dots from those two places, Stuart comes up right on the heels of the last passage I read where Olivia is about to run away. And he does have a surprise for her, her painting that she's completed. Uh, during the mini course, he has taken to his exhibit and put in like a really central point with a bunch of other alumni paintings so that people can see it.
And everybody goes crazy for it. People really think it's great. And Olivia is like, oh, well maybe I actually do like painting. And I'm not just in love with Stewart. Like that would be cool for me. Right. But she heads home and she goes over. She's had a, we didn't tell the Gladiators that she has recently.
Yelled at Elizabeth for telling everybody that she had a crush on Stewart, because she assumed that that must be what happened. She doesn't realize that literally the entire school knows that she has a crush on the painting teacher. Um, so she goes over to Elizabeth's house to apologize. but then, we find out that there is a surprise party for Olivia.
Olivia is very surprised, and this is where I had my,
omg
oh my God moment.
[00:46:46] Marissa: The part of the book where I say, oh my God, out loud, doesn't always happen. Happened this time
PARTY for the next few minutes, pandemonium was the rule. Everyone was crowding around Olivia hugging her, wishing her a happy birthday, Winston hurried over to put music on the stereo.
And Mrs. Davidson brought out a huge pile of presence. Olivia felt absolutely overwhelmed. Everyone. All her friends had made it.
And here's, here's the moment where I say, oh my God,
Then her gaze fell on Stuart and Monica. What are you doing here? She demanded Monica. I thought it was your birthday too. It is, Monica admitted, but Stewart and I decided to wait and celebrate it tomorrow night.
She gave Olivia a big smile. He really didn't want to miss this.
[00:47:32] Chris: Really bro. You didn't want to miss a 17 year old's birthday party. Why is that?
[00:47:38] Marissa: You got to understand baby. She's my star pupil,
[00:47:43] Paris: she's my backup option. After you went a couple of years, you understand
[00:47:49] Marissa: trying to
keep my options open. You know how it is.
[00:47:51] Chris: Hello, Olivia's parents. Can I come to the birthday party that you have? How does he know?
[00:47:57] Marissa: They must have invited him!
Mrs. Davidson must've called him up and invited him.
[00:48:03] Paris: here's the wild
thing. He's been her teacher for two weeks. When did they have time to establish this kind of rapport where he would be at her fucking home on a Friday night? Like, it's not like it's this teacher that she's had throughout all of high school, you know, maybe they've spent three or four years together and, and he's really mentored her seriously.
Like I could kind of understand. Even then weird, but like, not as weird. I mean, you barely know this person from a stranger on the street,
[00:48:34] Chris: No, Paris.
I looked up his address in the alumni manual. I've been to his apartments. We totally know each other.
[00:48:40] Marissa: I've got, I've listened to his voice on the answering machine countless times.
[00:48:45] Paris: 500 minutes. That, that is the
[00:48:48] Chris: I just, I can't imagine being Monica and that's it. Or even though I can't even imagine being Stuart and going, like, you know, it's my girlfriend's birthday. I want to treat her a nice, and you know, I can, maybe we could have special a couple of time later on tonight. Nah, I'd rather go to a 17 year old's birthday party.
[00:49:05] Paris: I honestly was like thinking, you know, a few minutes ago, I was like imagining you and your girlfriend in this situation. Hey, Hey Rebecca, I know it's your birthday, but I'm having my student recital today. And, uh, and then we're going to go to the birthday party of my star pupil that I've only known for two weeks instead of like having dinner and having birthday sex.
Is that cool? Like also that's
[00:49:29] Marissa: turning 17 by the way. So that'll
[00:49:31] Paris: Yeah,
[00:49:32] Chris: it's just unconscionable. Honestly. I like.
[00:49:35] Paris: yeah,
[00:49:36] Chris: Again, parents, like you said, if this was like someone that he had been mentoring for a long time, even a year, even just like one year or something would be enough for it to be kind of reasonable to show up at a birthday party for this person two weeks is not enough.
I have a couple of students that I've been teaching for like a year or plus that I, you know, if they had some kind of event where they were performing or something, I would totally a hundred percent show up if they had a birthday party. I don't know. I'd probably be like, oh, well, you know, probably not to be honest with you, but like, I would think about it for half a second because it's like this very specific group of students that I know that I've been teaching for like multiple years maybe, but that's such a maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe thing and not at all a guaranteed, like, yeah, yeah.
Let's go at the two weeks thing is really baffling to me for this.
[00:50:24] Marissa: Maybe it's because it's only been two weeks that there is the somewhat surprising to me a moment in this book when basically like the spell is broken, as soon as Olivia knows about Monica and once she sees what Stewart's surprise for her really was, you know, that he has showcased her painting,
she's very much like, oh, how could I have been so stupid? Uh, I almost missed out on having a great friendship with a great mentor because I was so obsessed with being in love with him. And she even refers to how her crush is over,
[00:51:01] Chris: Yeah. It fizzles out so quickly and with like almost no consequence to it besides Olivia's embarrassment, which is, you know, that's legit, you
[00:51:11] Marissa: I guess that's
[00:51:11] Chris: where she feels embarrassed. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:51:14] Paris: feel like, yeah, the lesson here. And so tepidly with no one learning anything. Stuart faces no consequences for his absurd, absurd, inappropriate behavior. I mean, and yeah, like the "lesson" is, what? Learned in Olivia's mind? Where she goes, oh, I guess I shouldn't have a crush on that guy. Like, that's not the fucking lesson here. Is Stewart needs to act like a predator, even if he doesn't realize it. And like, sure. Maybe it's a learning experience for Olivia. Like we've all been there when we're young kids and you know, you get, uh, you get into like a celebrity or somebody, you know, somebody who's older than you, and maybe you idle on it.
That's kind of common for kids, but the level, like you're saying, like the level of her obsession in a two-week period is fucking intense.
[00:52:09] Marissa: Yeah.
Maybe, maybe with infatuation, but it is definitely, it's very teenage. Like if anything, like it's like either you're a teenager or you're having a little bit of like a brain chemical problem. Like one of
those two things is the case or both or both. And I think that what you're describing about the onus really being on Stuart, I think that's one of the ways that sort of like society, or at least a media has sort of changed gradually since this book was, was published.
Is that that's we really want to like, hold Stuart accountable at this point. But these books were for were for young girls, presumably like young people. So I guess that's Olivia's lesson. And I thank God that the lesson is at least the lesson is "don't have a crush on your teacher" and not, "it's cool to have a crush on your teacher sometimes."
[00:53:00] Paris: Yeah, that's true.
[00:53:02] Marissa: let's take small victories.
[00:53:04] Paris: I would worry that Olivia is going to do this again because what we're, you know, when she, when she showed up, when she showed up at his apartment, Everything was great. Everything was fine, you know, going on crazy adventures to find people's addresses and then showing up at their house was rewarded.
I mean, you know, going with your older teacher to a store, like hanging out with them after hours, like, again, it kind of rewarded. I mean, I know her crush dissipated, but I feel like all these things that she did that were really unhealthy behaviors were never really met with any sort of consequences.
Not that I wanted any, you know, not that I wanted anything awful to happen, but I didn't want to, you know, stumble into a sexual assault scene or anything. But I kind of wished that maybe like, you know, for example, when she goes to Stuart's house, I kind of wish that maybe a classmate was walking down the street or lived on the same street and was like, what are you doing?
Like, this is inappropriate. You know, I kind of wished there was a little more, that was like, Hey, these behaviors, aren't good.
[00:54:07] Marissa: Right. And instead what happened? I mean, nobody really even knows like no one in the book other than Olivia knows that she's engaging in this behavior, but luckily Olivia's attentions from, uh, for, at least for the time being immediately after this book are going to be taken up by one Rod Sullivan who comes to a party and brings her a present and she's like, oh, I see you now.
I can see you now. Rod Sullivan. You're not so bad. You're slender and tallish. That's basically all that description we get of Rod Sullivan.
[00:54:37] Paris: That's all you need in 1989. Tall.
[00:54:38] Marissa: Yeah
He's.
Early on in this episode, you guys were talking about how Jessica was so terrible and Jessica's terribleness is a big part of the B plot, which we haven't really talked about at all.
But I think we can get into the B story. It's juicy enough to talk about it next week in extra drama. Um, but it's funny. One thing that we usually do on sweet valley diaries is I ask my guests if they think they are more of a Jessica or more of an Elizabeth. So what I'll ask you guys is you can answer that question if you want, but also, you know, was there a character in the book that you really, uh, linked on to?
You could, you could see yourself in at all.
[00:55:16] Chris: Hmm. I mean, I definitely don't want to be a Jessica. I would hope I'm not a Jessica at all because she's incredibly petty in a lot of ways. And I don't think I am usually. Paris, feel free to correct me on that, but I, I don't know. I kind of have find it hard to relate to a bunch of chefs, teenagers, to be honest with you, because I'd never lived in this world when I was in high school either.
[00:55:47] Marissa: Yeah,
[00:55:47] Chris: know. I guess Randy it's Randy, who I
[00:55:50] Marissa: Randy Mason. Sure. Yeah. Maybe, maybe like a Winston Egbert. I could see a Winston Egbert is the sort of jokey class clown guy. And there's a funny moment when Jessica is in electronics class, when she's getting paired with Randy Mason and she kind of looks longingly over to Jeffrey and Winston and she's like, I wish I could have been partners with one of them.
And it's like, Jeffery is Elizabeth's boyfriend and Winston is a nerd, but he's like a popular nerd because he's the class clown. And also Jessica was recently stranded on an island with him for two days and one night.
[00:56:23] Paris: Yeah. How does that not come up at all?
[00:56:26] Marissa: Really mysterious.
[00:56:28] Chris: we don't talk about island time. Never. We're never talking about island time ever again. Winston.
[00:56:34] Paris: what happened in those two days? We
[00:56:36] Marissa: yeah. What happened on outermost island? We never speak of. Uh, what about you? Paris, Jessica? Elizabeth? Enid?
[00:56:45] Paris: Well, I think Eaton is always the voice of reason and I feel like that's typically my role in life and that was also my role.
[00:56:52] Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
You're you're also very Enid in our D and D group. So.
[00:56:57] Paris: that's true. When the rest of y'all are like let's murder everyone. I'm like, guys, can we come to a diplomatic solution? We don't want to be run out of another town. Dammit.
[00:57:06] Marissa: I feel like Enid occupies a very kind of like Elizabeth space in this book. Like the way that she behaves is a way that Elizabeth often is, whereas this is one of those books where Elizabeth is described as just kind of thinking so good of people that she can't even suspect that possibly Olivia could have this kind of like, uh, ill-conceived crush on a teacher.
[00:57:31] Paris: Yeah.
[00:57:32] Marissa: Uh, so even it is though. Yeah, she's really sharp. She's really got an Eagle lie out in this book for every move that's happening.
[00:57:40] Paris: Yeah. That's me. I'm the, um, Eagle eye. Oh,
[00:57:45] Marissa: Well, oh, go ahead.
[00:57:46] Paris: Oh, sorry. I was going to say we had, there was a minor note. Maybe we can save it for the other one, but sororities and fraternities in high school.
[00:57:59] Marissa: Yeah, that sure. Enough PI beta alpha is from the very beginning of the series. And, uh, I think Phi Epsilon is the name of the fraternity
at the high
school. I don't
[00:58:10] Paris: so confused.
[00:58:11] Marissa: There's just, no, there's no answer. It's just, it exists. It's a thing that exists. I sometimes it matters.
Sometimes it matters a lot and sometimes it's just doesn't play any part in the whole thing.
[00:58:24] Paris: All
[00:58:24] Marissa: Well, Paris and Chris, thank you so much for reading this book. Uh, was it more terrible or less terrible than average for you?
[00:58:34] Chris: It was quick. It was very quick, which I, it, I like that about it. I read it on two separate train rides on the same day, like go in into one place and then the, on the return trip, I finished it off. So I loved that. That was really cool.
[00:58:47] Paris: Yeah, I would say it was less terrible. Both for brevity, like Chris Meshan mentioned. And also just because there were some points in it that were like fairly realistic and I felt like the teenage dialogue, you know, sounds like the way teenagers might talk to one another. Um, like I said, you know, being a poor struggling artist and you're in your twenties.
Um, I mean, yeah, some of it, it, it got some points from me for sure. Um, obviously we've already talked about all the things that were weird or bad about but
I was, yeah, I would say, you know, it's, it's on the, on the better side of terrible for,
[00:59:25] Chris: it's Yeah, this is, this is fine. Like, you know, I don't have any sort of major beef with it. It's, you know, sort of shallow, but I would expect that for like, at a very young adults sort of like, you know, drama book, which is like, totally not my style, but I maybe I'm a little being a little overbearing by calling that shallow.
Some people are into
[00:59:47] Marissa: Well, it was the eighties. A lot of things were shallow, right?
[00:59:51] Chris: Yeah. So like, I mean, in comparison to a lot of the other terrible things, we've read that it's just like aggressively horrible. Um, this is bearable and fine. So overall.
[01:00:03] Marissa: to hear you say it. I ju and I'm sure the gladiators, some there'll be a certain factor of the gladiators that will have been very nervous. Like are you guys are being too harsh on the sweet valley, high novels, but, but no, this is all, this is very positive. And for everybody else who is a delighted by the prospect of terrible books, where can people find Terrible Book Club or find what you guys are up to on the vast Internet.
[01:00:27] Paris: Oh boy. You can find us on literally any podcast or app or podcast website. Uh, you can also just go to terrible book club.com.
You can find, find us on the high seas of Instagram. I believe we are on tiktok now?. I don't know. That's realm.
[01:00:43] Chris: Yeah, I'm still not doing great at like anything with that. I'm trying, I'm trying to learn it.
[01:00:48] Marissa: Tik tOK is hard.
[01:00:49] Chris: yeah. I mean, that's like we're in the, I don't know the frontiers of tick-tock. I suppose we're on the, the, the horrible, angry caves of Twitter while we're just running this landscape metaphor into the ground.
[01:01:03] Marissa: well done. Yeah.
[01:01:04] Chris: You can even find us on the Meadows of g-mail at terrible book [email protected]. If you'd like to send us a message.
[01:01:10] Paris: also have a, we have an account. Good reads. If you're into that, if you're
tracking your books, um, and we are on Patreon, like many creators, uh, where we have extra content. Sometimes we watch movies or TV shows that are related to things we've read. Like we, we recently read the, a KFC romance novel, and then we watched the
accompanying, you know, mini movie.
Um, there, we watched a vegetable Oedipus recently. There's all kinds of weird stuff on there. Uh, sometimes we also do fun video segments, so yeah, there's all sorts of stuff on there. If you're, if you're interested. Um, and we're on you, I don't know. Like I said, kind of everywhere, just looked for terrible book club or go to term book club.com.
[01:01:51] Marissa: Well, and I'll put a link to the show in the show notes and the listeners. I'm sure that if you start listening to terrible book club, you can find out about everything that they're doing by having Paris. And Chris tell you, uh, on every episode of the show or the, where you can find it. Well guys, thank you so much for doing this.
We'll talk a little bit more about the B story. Of course. Uh, we'll tease book number 58, and maybe talk about some other stuff in next week's extra drama. Thanks. Um, oh, and I've been,
And the advice this week is easy. Everybody, uh, don't have a crush on your teacher and if you're a teacher...
[01:02:27] Chris: no winks, no winks. don't wake
[01:02:30] Marissa: No
winking.
[01:02:32] Chris: not wake to don't do it. Don't wink. Don't call him a heartbreaker.
[01:02:38] Marissa: Put it on the t-shirt take that's our takeaway for this week. Gladiators. We'll catch you next week for more teacher crush talk. Bye.
[01:02:46] Paris: Yeah. Thanks. Thank you.
[01:02:48] Marissa: This is a test of the microphone to see how loud I'm being. Maybe I don't need to be this loud. Maybe I don't need to be this loud.
Posted at 07:59 AM in Olivia Davidson, Podcast, Romances | Permalink | Comments (0)
personality matters
Haley Tubbs returns to talk about the science field trip that wasn't, and whether Jessica is right about guys with "too much of a sense of humor." What fun! All in the the name of LOST AT SEA, of course.
THE FOLLOWING TRANSCRIPT IS AUTO-GENERATED. APOLOGIES FOR THE MANY TYPOS!
Extra Drama #56
Marissa: [00:00:00] extra drama for book number 56, lost at sea
Hello everyone. I am your host, Marissa flax, Bart. Welcome to extra drama and welcome to our guest this week. Haley
tubs. Hi Hailey.
56 haley: [00:00:30] Hello.
Marissa: [00:00:32] Well, we've been talking about the rollicking sea adventure and the deserted island drama that is lost at sea, sweet valley high number 56. And it all started with a lowly extra credit science field trip.
56 haley: [00:00:48] The catalyst.
Marissa: [00:00:50] the catalyst. Ooh, a good, a good science word. Did you ever go on a cool science field trip? Like this? This seemed like so extra
to me.
56 haley: [00:01:00] it did. So I'm honestly, I'm still... ba-dum-shhhh, ocean plug. So.
I have two brothers, um, both of them were able to go on the field trip. It was the eighth grade field trip that every eighth grader in my hometown went on. Um, and it was a, it was called sea camp. And it was a week in the keys where you do just a crash course of Marine biology and the Florida keys.
Um, get on a bus you drive overnight to get there. and they have all these stories. They talk about like, you know, snorkeling with sharks, deer that would just approach you in the keys. Everyone having like close encounters where they got to feed deer, not really necessarily a Marine biology thing, but that was a cool story
lots of people had, yeah, you got to like research things in an actual lab. Um, a lot of just like this field trip, a lot of, you know, driving around on boats, I'm sure tide pools were a huge part of it, anyways, when it came time for me to go on the field trip, they booked the field trip over Halloween weekend.
Halloween was on a weekend this year and nobody signed up. So they canceled the field trip because they didn't have enough interest. And I've been sad about it ever since.
Marissa: [00:02:21] aww, just, like Elizabeth would have been, awww,
56 haley: [00:02:27] know, I'm sorry that that's not a particularly uplifting answer to your question, but that is what this reminded me of from the beginning.
Marissa: [00:02:35] amazed to know that there is such a thing that happens like that is so similar to the trip that these kids went on. I mean, you up in Florida, right?
a little bit more like California than where I was in high school, which was in Northwest Indiana, on lake Michigan. We were on a body of
boy, I sure don't remember ever going on a science field trip to do anything on the water in lake Michigan. I don't remember doing any cool science field trips in high school, really. I mean, maybe I'm just forgetting about them, but so they couldn't obviously couldn't have been that cool. W you know, I was in girl Scouts, so we had a certain amount of like that element of like being out in nature and
56 haley: [00:03:15] True,
Marissa: [00:03:16] you know, lots of different kinds of badges that you get for, know, learning about different kinds of plants and all that stuff was a big part of my childhood, but it wasn't a part of science class.
a part of like recreation.
56 haley: [00:03:31] Yeah, definitely.
Marissa: [00:03:33] I had some cool science experiments that were like out in the field when I got to college, actually, there were sort of like science courses that you took if you were not on a, kind of more science-y track,
we had, a core curriculum, like requirement for every different area.
So like, you ha you still had to take science, even if you were a film studies major. Like I was, but doing that, we got to do some pretty cool stuff. We had an early assignment where we were like measuring the cosmic microwave background. Even at the time I was like, this is wild
because we had this, you don't really, it's the university of Chicago.
We had this like really intense equipment at our disposal. So we're like
56 haley: [00:04:15] amazing.
Marissa: [00:04:17] I honestly don't remember how we did it, but I remember that I remember being up with like this telescope and like observing something. And the information that we observed was like, whatever way we crunch the numbers showed us that that's, that's what we
were observing.
56 haley: [00:04:34] That's amazing. That's so cool.
Marissa: [00:04:36] That's pretty cool. also this thing. We have like monk parakeets here in California, those pretty little green
56 haley: [00:04:42] Yeah,
Marissa: [00:04:43] They also exist -- at least they did when I was in college, in, in Chicago, Hyde park, especially. And so we had this, experiment that was like kind of a field experiment where we went around, like trying to observe them and like talking about where we, where we saw them.
And that
was, that was fun.
56 haley: [00:05:00] I went on, so not to just talk about Tappity the whole time, but it's applicable very much so here. Um, so, uh, we, were doing a week on the rainforest, um, and the activity that particular week, um, because typically we'll do like a fun magic school bus style mission, um, where we go on a science adventure, I'd very narrative adventure and learn something, learn many things, hopefully, um, and have fun while doing it.
And then we'll have other activities we'll have, um, you know, our more, hands-on either creating something or doing an experiment type activity, um, and then a trivia type activity. But the one that I'm about to talk about is we have a drawing activity as well. and this particular drawing activity for the rainforest was to draw a parrot. So I was like, you know, what I'm going to do for these Tappernauts, um, is I'm going to go out and I'm going to find those little green parrots. Um, and I'm going to film a video of myself with one of them and blow their minds.
Cause we're drawing them this week and this will be great because they exist where I live. Um, so I went on this hike out in Malibu where I had seen them before and I spent. Maybe two hours tracking down these parrots, I would hear them and like go towards the sound. And eventually there was, um, there was a few in a tree pretty far away.
So I used as much zoom as I could on my phone camera zooming in trying to find these parrots. was they're very loud,
Marissa: [00:06:21] their sound is a good way to find where they, where
they are.
56 haley: [00:06:24] definitely. So I had zoomed in and I got a pretty clear picture. I was like, okay, my Zoom's enough to where you could at least see like little green specks on, on the trees. So I could be like, these are, the parrots we're drawing. Um, so I leave the hike a little hungry. So I stopped at a pavilions in the pavilions parking lot immediately above my car.
This tree is FULL ofthese green parrots, like closer than I'd probably ever seen a bird like this, they were just everywhere. And I was like, man, well, I could have just gone grocery shopping. I didn't have to go out into the wild, but Southern California is crazy as is evidenced in, Lost at Sea with their wildlife encounters.
It's thrill wild down here.
Marissa: [00:07:06] Yeah. I haven't seen a bear yet, but definitely you have some monk parakeets, sightings.
56 haley: [00:07:13] hope that wasn't too much of a tangent, but that story, but you talked about the monk parakeets and
Marissa: [00:07:17] me. I of like the, this is the tangent zone, uh, extra drama is, but seems like it seems very much on topic to me, we can change the topic away from science to, to one other little thing that, you know, we talked a little bit of in the main episode about this interesting kind of psychological undercurrent to Lost at Sea, which was Winston the class clown. And there was a line that really stood out to me that I thought could be kind of fun to talk about. And I'll like, I dunno, just sort of like dish session kind of way,
. Early on when Jessica is annoyed with Winston and thinking about how she doesn't know what Maria sees in him.
It's certainly not. Uh, his looks says
Winston was lanky and awkward with no muscles worth mentioning,
56 haley: [00:08:07] Yeah.
Marissa: [00:08:08] but goes on to, she thinks to herself, , he was an institution at sweet valley, high invited to every party because he provided free entertainment. But boy, I'd rather date a guy with absolutely no sense of humor than one with too much thought. And, uh, thought when I read that sentence, I was like...really?, I, it's, I mean, too much sense of humor does sound pretty bad, but like no sense of humor. I don't know. What did you think? What do you, did you notice that at
all? Is it just me.
56 haley: [00:08:47] Definitely. But I think it's also because, um, and I hate to admit this because of what this has about me. Um, but I had to learn that exact lesson in college. Um, I, uh, so I didn't really date much in college. Um, and, uh, there was this, um, strapping gentlemen. We had a real meet, cute, uh, my senior year in an elevator, um, where we discovered that we lived across from each other in an apartment building.
And he left a note on my door saying like, if you ever need milk or sugar, you can know where to find me. And I was like, okay. Um, turns out that's the most clever thing he will ever say in his life? Um, he's very, very handsome.
Marissa: [00:09:28] man. He
got on your hands.
56 haley: [00:09:31] So, um, uh, very attractive. And at that point in my life, I thought like, if I'm attracted to you, like the rest will come, you know what I mean?
Like, that's the Mo I was like, I think at this, at this particular moment in my life, I think that that is the most important thing. And as long as we're attracted to each other, like a relationship can happen, boy, was I wrong? So I think I really came to know this when, um, we were literally sitting on a couch in his apartment, just pulling teeth, trying to have a conversation with each other.
And we started playing words, with friends, because that was popular at the time. Um, uh, I was like trying to joke about things, didn't understand any of them and truly my life. That was the first time that I was like, personality matters. And like, I was probably too old to be learning that lesson.
but I was like, truly, there is more to a relationship. Like you need to have a sense of humor. And that's when I realized that that was an important thing for me. My husband now is very, very silly. so sure
Marissa: [00:10:30] And I spend least one day a week sort of making dumb jokes in a, in studio in Burbank, like really, really dumb jokes
we're
Yeah.
56 haley: [00:10:43] So,
Marissa: [00:10:44] really hard today at a joke that I wrote that wasn't even a joke. It was just like a repetition of words, know, it just, I laughed so hard.
I really cracked myself up.
56 haley: [00:10:58] oh, tappity is a Haven for corny jokes like that. It's where they all belong. They can all live their best lives, all those corny jokes. Um, but yeah, so I really, uh, I really felt that I was like, oh, Jessica in your life. You will learn that the way somebody looks is the least important part of your relationship.
Marissa: [00:11:20] Will she learn that? I hope she learns it
56 haley: [00:11:23] I mean, I think that my husband is a handsome man. I am attracted to him as well. So I'm not saying like I learned my lesson and now, you know, he's silly and that's enough if he's listening to this podcast. Um, but,
Marissa: [00:11:35] yes.
56 haley: [00:11:35] I learned in, in that moment, that was my exact thought is like, oh, you're young, soon.
You will know that too much sense of humor is maybe the most attractive quality in another human being, because it's a long life. It's a long life. There are many ups and downs,
Marissa: [00:11:50] Yeah,
56 haley: [00:11:51] when you have a Marissa knows very well, the trials and tribulations of us having a one-year-old and trying to go about our lives with our one-year-old child, but takes 200% of our energy at all times.
And Marissa is, oh
Marissa: [00:12:05] at all times.
56 haley: [00:12:06] yeah, it doesn't all working together.
Marissa: [00:12:10] He's great. I like him a lot,
yeah, no, I, for me, I'm really, I am the sort of person that, like, me, there's a big difference between seeing and acknowledging that someone is physically attractive and actually being attracted to them. if I. Saw someone who was really attractive. And I learned that they were dumb.
Like I, the attraction, it wouldn't like, it's not that it would cease it's that it would never have had a chance to like foam it.
56 haley: [00:12:44] Yes,
Marissa: [00:12:45] wouldn't have gotten to the point to be attracted to them. Whereas on the flip side, if someone is not visually appealing to me, but I get to know them and I'm like a Maria Santelli in that way, you know,
56 haley: [00:12:56] absolutely.
Marissa: [00:12:57] doesn't sound like my type physically, but if I got to, I mean, nor really, he sounds like an annoying little shit, but if I got, if I. I will have to admit if I were stranded on a deserted island
and he were single, I would have started thinking as soon as he started showing a great guy he was, I would have started thinking about how like, oh, well, if we're stuck here for too long, you know what I mean? We might have to keep each other warm at night.
You know, I would
56 haley: [00:13:24] Thousand percent.
Marissa: [00:13:25] to that place that Jessica never goes. Even when she's fantasizing, I read a quote in the main episode about how she's thinking about how he's going to look like rip van Winkle with those long beard, and she's going to have scraggly.
doesn't think about their little children that they're going to have or how be married by like a, you know, a coconut on a stick
you know,
56 haley: [00:13:46] And it was dangling. She was like, you know, my sister's going to get married. My brother's going to get married and I'm going to grow old with Winston, but doesn't move towards like the marriage. Like she, she talks about two weddings and then uses the phrase, grow old with Wednesday and, and still, it doesn't come to the point she's like, maybe him.
But one thing I will say that I, sorry.
Marissa: [00:14:09] oh, I suppose. And I'll tell you, Jessica, I don't know how long she could go without having some, some physical affection.
you know, they would at least have to make out a little bit, I think, after, after three or four days,
56 haley: [00:14:23] I mean, she couldn't go six hours without a date on this field trip. So I mean, multiple days.
Marissa: [00:14:30] so true. It's so
true.
56 haley: [00:14:32] I will say I appreciated that they set Jessica up. Like, I don't know. I maybe had to change my perspective on it a little bit from being like they weren't, I'm sorry, if this is too harsh of a word, you can tell me, uh, they never like slut-shamed her, you know what I mean? Like, it was kind of empowering the whole time.
Her being like Jessica plays the field, like Jessica is in control. Like she is like, know. Like they, uh,
she was kind of like a Samantha in sex in the city. Like she was like, um, they referred to her like playing the field and they talked about her, like, you know, her being boy crazy and all these things.
Um, but I feel like they kind of did it in an empowering way. Like they never, they never,
Marissa: [00:15:11] Jessica is. That's what she's into. It's like in the
56 haley: [00:15:14] Hmm.
Marissa: [00:15:15] you know, a different character is into like taking pretty pictures know, Elizabeth likes to write, you know, Jessica likes to
chase boys.
56 haley: [00:15:24] definitely. And she was definitely in control on her pursuit of Ken Matthews. Like she, like, she made her move when she wanted to like. And, uh,
Marissa: [00:15:34] says something to Laila on the boat. When she, before she does that, that's like, let's have a little fun. She's just like, I'm going to go. I'm going to go play this game
now where I
56 haley: [00:15:42] definitely it was like a traditionally and I don't mean to sound sexist saying this. It was like a traditionally masculine energy, especially in 1989 when, when this was written, you know what I mean? Like the idea of being like I'm on the prowl, I'm on the pursuit. Like Ken Matthews is like, you know, like my prey of the day.
Marissa: [00:16:00] never really thought about that. We
like third wave feminism coming into play and see valley high,
56 haley: [00:16:10] It's really
Marissa: [00:16:11] wave, acknowledged. Haley, thank you so much. See, this ended up being a juicy or topic than I thought it might
56 haley: [00:16:23] sure.
Marissa: [00:16:24] for our extra drama. Thank you so much again for doing this with me, for reading the book
56 haley: [00:16:29] Thank you.
Marissa: [00:16:30] being great
56 haley: [00:16:31] Thank you.
for being great.
Oh my pleasure.
Marissa: [00:16:36] You're welcome. And gladiators, uh, tune in next week to find out about teacher crush, which we're really crossing our fingers and, uh, ourselves that, uh, there's not going to be any, anything too upsetting, uh, occurring within the pages
56 haley: [00:16:54] can't wait to listen in and find out because I'm on and breath.
Marissa: [00:16:58] All right. Well, if you want to borrow it, I can lend you
my copy.
56 haley: [00:17:01] hooked now. So have to read the first 55.
Marissa: [00:17:05] Yeah, I think it's a great idea. Um, well thank you so much for listening and, uh, remember to subscribe to the show if you haven't already and to tell a friend Haley, thanks again so much for being here. I'll
56 haley: [00:17:20] you.
Marissa: [00:17:22] Bye.
We did it.
56 haley: [00:17:44] And I was like, I'll start now. And I'll read a little bit, each day. I have like, you know, three or four days to read it and I just read the whole thing. It like clipped along. It was like, well, Hey, like I can't stop. I have to know.
Posted at 09:31 AM in Jessica, Podcast, Romances, Science, Winston Egbert | Permalink | Comments (0)
"Is this all just a long non-sequitur?"
Jack and Tanner are back for more THRILLER talk. What all-time-greatest film is this book's plot remixed from? How would the BSC handle this mystery? Would a t-shirt fit over Jack's head? Find out all this and more (sort of) in today's EXTRA DRAMA!
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Posted at 08:24 AM in Elizabeth, Film, Jessica, Podcast, Romances, Super Thrillers, Terrible Accidents | Permalink | Comments (0)
